Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Cheeetar]

Yeah I have to agree here, white people are terrible- no exceptions. I think it's very telling that there's so much 'outrage' and 'safe space-ism' when people point that out, but not so much for the other side of the coin.

[Starver]

Not the source I got it from, but looks similar: http://www.factandmyth.com/voter-fraud/are-dead-people-voting-fraud
Within which is a link to http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf which has some even more fun information (e.g. someone put on trial for voting twice even though they voted only the once...)

Isn't it fun!

[Max™]

<- Capital "R" Regressive.


I was gonna try to find that picture from Pocahontas with the "These white men are dangerous" but I'd have to go dig into the shithole that is tumblr I suspect, so instead here's a picture of someone who is only 5/8ths dangerous holding a big pretty spider who is 100% not dangerous, but wrongly discriminated against.

Stop being speciesist! Spiders are people too! Well, not really, but they have feelings! Well, not in the sense that we might ascribe meaning to that term, but Val there is just a harmless little old lady, and like most little old ladies she likes to quietly hang out on the porch, knit, and eat insects!

[TempAcc]

I was going to paste a dwarf face over carl's ugly "u a fookin white male" mug and post it here, but I got lazy. I'm posting here to reaffirm my interest in remaining lazy for today.

[Rolan7]

Nnn okay I guess I'm not quite gone yet, but at least Mainiac and me are okay.
I just have to respond to one last thing, sorry...

So, a. Most laws designed to prevent voter fraud are, in point of fact, racist. They can very well be racist and elitist at the same time, it turns out. Don't get me wrong, I find the 'disproportionately affects people of color' line to be quite tiresome. But that don't mean it's false. I looked at one of the old literacy tests they would give people in order to choose who could vote. And it was them choosing. Those things are goddamned confusing, and I got a 800 in the reading SATs, so at the very least it'snot me being thick about it. Voter fraud is not a common issue in the US. And reasons can overlap. Blacks tend to be democratic, so it's an easy way to consolidate voting blocks. Is it Ku Klux Klan style racist? No, probably not. It's still intentionally blocking minorities. Keeping out other poor folks is just icing on the cake.

...No
Disenfranchising the poor isn't racist, even though black people are more likely to be poor.  It's not targeting any race, it's targeting the poor.  In this case, people so poor they can't pay $15 every 4 years OR qualify for any of the situations where they don't have to pay.

Just for illustration, if everyone in poverty lost the right to vote?  More white people would lose that right than black people.  All I'm saying is that poor white people exist, in fact there are a fucking lot of them.  Many in my family, so sorry if I take this just a little personally.

Disenfranchising the uneducated was the same.  It targeted the uneducated.  Lots of people were uneducated, lots of white people.

Is it wrong to disenfranchise the poor?  Yeah, so let's call it what it is instead of inventing a racist conspiracy.  It's a conservative conspiracy against Democrats.

[smjjames]

Oh come on guys, it's Maniac, and he was shitposting/bantering in the same way as LW does when he is sarcastic/satirical/not serious, so I knew he wasn't being serious.

[TempAcc]

In simpler terms for the more simple minded:
Hello hello, world, the entirety of the poor layer of western society isn't entirely made of black people, no, in fact, not even half of it is all black, altough a significant portion of it IS made of black people. This is not a magical ayylmao conspiracy made by lobster overlords and marlon brando lookalikes who universally hate black people, sorry, please find a more believable conspiracy theory to build narratives on, like the roswell aliens or timecube.

[Frumple]

... having actually, as stated, seen some of these law makers talk when the hair is down. Yeah, this stuff can be strictly aimed at the poor. In the US much of it isn't. It's strongly motivated by racism. The sort of folks pushing for this will drive by a predominantly white trailer park and call them good people, and refuse to move into an upscale or middle-class neighborhood if there's black people living on the same street. Even among the poor, the treatment is very different along racial lines, particularly on the net.

There is a fair amount of disenfranchisement and shit treatment of the poor in the US. The racism problem is that it's even worse for most poor minorities. And as some of the stuff recently linked noted, voter ID laws are certainly being used as a vehicle to do that, if perhaps not strictly as such.

[mainiac]

Yeah I have to agree here, white people are terrible- no exceptions. I think it's very telling that there's so much 'outrage' and 'safe space-ism' when people point that out, but not so much for the other side of the coin.

Nice to see it wasn't entirely wasted.

[Rolepgeek]

Nnn okay I guess I'm not quite gone yet, but at least Mainiac and me are okay.
I just have to respond to one last thing, sorry...

So, a. Most laws designed to prevent voter fraud are, in point of fact, racist. They can very well be racist and elitist at the same time, it turns out. Don't get me wrong, I find the 'disproportionately affects people of color' line to be quite tiresome. But that don't mean it's false. I looked at one of the old literacy tests they would give people in order to choose who could vote. And it was them choosing. Those things are goddamned confusing, and I got a 800 in the reading SATs, so at the very least it'snot me being thick about it. Voter fraud is not a common issue in the US. And reasons can overlap. Blacks tend to be democratic, so it's an easy way to consolidate voting blocks. Is it Ku Klux Klan style racist? No, probably not. It's still intentionally blocking minorities. Keeping out other poor folks is just icing on the cake.

...No
Disenfranchising the poor isn't racist, even though black people are more likely to be poor.  It's not targeting any race, it's targeting the poor.  In this case, people so poor they can't pay $15 every 4 years OR qualify for any of the situations where they don't have to pay.

Just for illustration, if everyone in poverty lost the right to vote?  More white people would lose that right than black people.  All I'm saying is that poor white people exist, in fact there are a fucking lot of them.  Many in my family, so sorry if I take this just a little personally.

Disenfranchising the uneducated was the same.  It targeted the uneducated.  Lots of people were uneducated, lots of white people.

Is it wrong to disenfranchise the poor?  Yeah, so let's call it what it is instead of inventing a racist conspiracy.  It's a conservative conspiracy against Democrats.

It ain't a conspiracy. You can't target black people specifically, we have laws against that. You can get away with finding things that affect them more than people who aren't black, though. Gerrymandering is the anti-democrat bit. There's plenty of poor people who vote Republican, after all.

Rolan, do you have personal experience with this while living in the American South? Because America has a goddamned history. MLK was only 50 years ago. If you're saying it's not targeted at blacks because it doesn't only target them, you're mistaken. You may as well say it's impossible to n racist; sure, banning raw fish consumptin affects Japanese restaurants proportionally more than white restaurants, but it does affect both, so really this is targeted at fishermen. I mean, leaving aside the way the law is implemented. Who they ask for ID. How much difficulty the beauracracy makes about getting it. Whether that decide your interpretation of the literacy tests is acceptable. Jim Crow laws aren't in debate. Yes, white people can also get tucked over by them. Individuals are not statistics. Black people get fucked over more than white people. Including, iirc, within the category of poor people. "Trailer trash" tend to have cars and live in semi-rural areas. They don't have population densities that can justify forcing four+ hour long waits to get those IDs when you need to work two shifts to make the rent, and pick up the kids from daycare. Just as one possible mechanism to give you an idea of how it can happen.

[mainiac]

Did anyone actually read that first article? It wasn't stereotypes. It was methodical, scientific discrimination.

[smirk]

This is not a magical ayylmao conspiracy made by lobster overlords and marlon brando lookalikes who universally hate black people, sorry, please find a more believable conspiracy theory to build narratives on, like the roswell aliens or timecube.

Aww, you've never heard of the Southern strategy! I almost envy your sweet, naive worldview =D  But unfortunately, racism employed as a means to win partisan politics still counts as racism. Here's a relevant quote, from an article on how the post-2013 voter ID laws are, in fact, racist:

Because of the strong link between race and party, some defenders of the laws have argued that the restrictions are nothing but “politics as usual” — that they’re not motivated by racial animus and are therefore lawful.
...
Lawmakers often use this “politics, not racism” line in redistricting cases, as well. In the recent past, Republican legislatures have packed black voters at unnecessarily high levels into a few districts, hoping to limit black voters’ impact on the partisan balance in the rest of the state. When challenged, they claim politics made them do it.
...
But for the hundreds of thousands of black voters harmed by these discriminatory laws, the effect is the same, whether they were singled out as black voters to reduce their power at the ballot box because of direct racial animus or partisan objectives. No doubt many Southern politicians supported Jim Crow before the civil rights movement as much because restrictions on black voters helped them stay in power as because of any personal racism. The intent and the effect is the same: purposeful suppression of black voters’ rights.

Heh, and speaking of the impact on class vs. race, here's one from the same article concerning Texas' voter ID laws:

There, officials accepted concealed-weapon licenses but not student or state employee IDs.

I dunno, I may be sober but I'm pretty sure that reads like they're more concerned with targeting minorities than targeting poor folk.

[SirQuiamus]

Did anyone actually read that first article? It wasn't stereotypes. It was methodical, scientific discrimination.

No one read it. No one cares. It wasn't terrifying. It was terrible, scientific, exclusionary...

[mainiac]

Terrible not terrifying is the slogan of these politicians. Trump seems to be trying a switcheroo.

[Max™]

Well, in many places the specific voter id racism came into play when they were targeting "local" minority groups, like the native americans in the dakotas, or latinos in the southwest, by deliberately taking a cross-section of possible id methods which excluded as many of them as possible, poor whites or blacks or any other minorities being caught in the mix were just a bonus if they were likely to vote [D] anyways.

Not all of them were or are racist, they generally are all classist as fuck, but much like redrawing districts to include and exclude specific groups of voters, race is often a heavy factor.

I mean, just looking at my areawhat was my area until we got chopped into the 8th?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee%27s_9th_congressional_district

I wonder what led this district map:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To be replaced by this one in 2013:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Whatever Republican strength is left in the 9th centers in three areas: 1) the affluent neighborhoods near and to the east of Interstate 240's eastern rim; 2) scattered white-majority precincts in the far southern and southeastern neighborhoods of the city of Memphis, near the Mississippi state line; and 3) the town of Collierville. However, they are always swamped at the ballot box by the African-American majority of the city's population, along with a growing number of liberal whites in neighborhoods such as Midtown and Cooper-Young. The latter constituency is only one of two of its kind in the entire state, the other being a (much larger) coalition of liberal, well-educated, middle-to-upper-income professionals and employees of higher education and the music industry who live in Nashville.

You might not be able to tell by looking at that map, but the chunks cut into the pre-2013 map indicate that this quote was posted before the redistricting.

Good lord, the 3rd is amazingly contorted to fit through that gap between the 2nd and 4th.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wait, we were next to the 7th until 2013 and now that is all 8th district?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Damn, for those who don't know, those parts of Memphis covered by the 9th are either really poor, really black, or both.

Code: [Select]

Median income $33,806
Ethnicity 36.1% White, 59.7% Black, 1.5% Asian, 3.0% Hispanic, 0.2% Native American, 0.3% other
OH HEY LOOK AT THIS: http://sos.tn.gov/products/elections/what-id-required-when-voting

Briefly you could go to a library and get one of the free photo ids and use it to vote here.

Spoiler: library locations (click to show/hide)

Now you gotta go to the dmv.

Spoiler: dmv locations (click to show/hide)

"Well the dmv offers free photo ids too!"

In case you didn't notice, that second map is zoomed out significantly compared to the first one. Wonder who is hurt more by having to drive completely across town to obtain valid id for voting? Certainly it isn't a problem for folks who already have a valid driver's license and vehicle, so who does that leave?