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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1419155 times)

Fniff

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16305 on: December 28, 2016, 02:32:52 pm »

Whoa, whoa there.  Yes, there's indications it's partially a mental disorder, but molesting kids is a choice and people who perpetuate this kind of thing should absolutely be held responsible for that.
And the ones who don't molest kids, but are still attracted to them...?

smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16306 on: December 28, 2016, 02:36:30 pm »


Trump has downplayed the wall a bit saying it'd be more of a fence
What's the point of it all when you're building a wall and in front of your eyes it disappears?

Ask Trump that, not me.
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Fniff

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16307 on: December 28, 2016, 02:38:16 pm »

Trump has downplayed the wall a bit saying it'd be more of a fence
What's the point of it all when you're building a wall and in front of your eyes it disappears?
Pointless work for pointless pay,
this is one game I shall not play!

Loud Whispers

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16308 on: December 28, 2016, 02:51:25 pm »

Whoa, whoa there.  Yes, there's indications it's partially a mental disorder, but molesting kids is a choice and people who perpetuate this kind of thing should absolutely be held responsible for that.
And the ones who don't molest kids, but are still attracted to them...?
Mental health hospitals

Fniff

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16309 on: December 28, 2016, 02:53:45 pm »

Whoa, whoa there.  Yes, there's indications it's partially a mental disorder, but molesting kids is a choice and people who perpetuate this kind of thing should absolutely be held responsible for that.
And the ones who don't molest kids, but are still attracted to them...?
Mental health hospitals
And how do we get them into the hospitals without making it "Soviet Dissident II: Pedophile Boogaloo"?

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16310 on: December 28, 2016, 02:58:44 pm »

As I said before, there's no need (nor any benefit to) a pedo hunt campaign, and that in fact probably makes the problem worse, especially among rich circles. Just encourage people to receive psychiatric assistance if they feel a compulsion to molest children. That will always be more effective than the most stringent police oversight or whatever.

This is just the extreme version of the typical problem that people reject mental healthcare because they're afraid of being stigmatized or imprisoned.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 03:07:03 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Fniff

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16311 on: December 28, 2016, 03:04:47 pm »

As I said before, there's no need (nor any benefit to) a pedo hunt campaign, and that in fact probably makes the problem worse, especially among rich circles. Just encourage people to receive psychiatric assistance if they feel a compulsion to molest children. That will always be more effective than the most stringent police oversight or whatever.
See, I would be happy with that. Then again, we do run into the problem of 'a government initiative with good intentions gathers up the personal information of easy scapegoats, which could be used for bad things by, say, a failed real-estate tycoon with Narcissistic tendencies'.

In fact, I'm not sure why a demagogue hasn't already used paedophiles as a target.
After all, there's an awful lot of them in government and the media.
... Oh, I may have answered my own question...

Edit: I realize this topic is both not really about American politics and is distressingly close to violating forum guidelines, so I may step out of it.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 03:07:42 pm by Fniff »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16312 on: December 28, 2016, 03:24:01 pm »

And how do we get them into the hospitals without making it "Soviet Dissident II: Pedophile Boogaloo"?
Rather simple with honeypots and an uncompromised law system

hector13

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16313 on: December 28, 2016, 03:42:38 pm »

As I said before, there's no need (nor any benefit to) a pedo hunt campaign, and that in fact probably makes the problem worse, especially among rich circles. Just encourage people to receive psychiatric assistance if they feel a compulsion to molest children. That will always be more effective than the most stringent police oversight or whatever.
See, I would be happy with that. Then again, we do run into the problem of 'a government initiative with good intentions gathers up the personal information of easy scapegoats, which could be used for bad things by, say, a failed real-estate tycoon with Narcissistic tendencies'.

In fact, I'm not sure why a demagogue hasn't already used paedophiles as a target.
After all, there's an awful lot of them in government and the media.
... Oh, I may have answered my own question...

Edit: I realize this topic is both not really about American politics and is distressingly close to violating forum guidelines, so I may step out of it.

Wasn't one of the big things about the Bathroom Laws that grown men dressing up as women would accost little girls? I'm reasonably sure Ted Cruz was one of the proponents of that line of thought.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16314 on: December 28, 2016, 05:13:10 pm »

Here's Trump's incentive to fund NASA.

I know China is talking about landing a probe on Mars (good luck to them, NASA, Russia, and other space agencies have had their share of failures. It won't be easy, even if they are standing on the shoulders of those that have gone before them), but it's incentive like no other to Trump.

I doubt we'd get a human on Mars THAT quickly, but hey, incentive to fund NASA is still incentive.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16315 on: December 28, 2016, 05:24:31 pm »

Quote
Epstein likes to tell people that he's a loner, a man who's never touched alcohol or drugs, and one whose nightlife is far from energetic. And yet if you talk to Donald Trump, a different Epstein emerges. "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,'' Trump booms from a speakerphone. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it -- Jeffrey enjoys his social life."

But beautiful women are only a part of it. Because here's the thing about Epstein: As some collect butterflies, he collects beautiful minds. "I invest in people -- be it politics or science. It's what I do," he has said to friends. And his latest prize addition is the former president. In his eyes, Clinton as a species represents the highest evolutionary form of the political animal. To be up close to him, as he was during the African journey, is akin to seeing the rarest of beasts on a safari. As he put it to a friend upon his return from Africa, "If you were a boxer at the downtown gymnasium at 14th Street and Mike Tyson walked in, your face would have the same look as these foreign leaders had when Clinton entered the room. He is the world's greatest politician."

"Jeffrey is both a highly successful financier and a committed philanthropist with a keen sense of global markets and an in-depth knowledge of twenty-first-century science," Clinton says through a spokesman. "I especially appreciated his insights and generosity during the recent trip to Africa to work on democratization, empowering the poor, citizen service, and combating HIV/AIDS."
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/
I really wonder why Trump didn't attack the Clintons for being the prize of pedophiles, seems like a rather obvious relationship to criticize. When every politician on both aisles of politics are turning a blind eye to the criminal predations of the foulest people, who by day are loner ethical philanthropists and by night are hosting presidents on the lolita express, something terrible has occurred. Swear down, you guys have a serious problem, your elites are fucked in the head and no one's policing them

Quote
n 1980, Epstein made partner, but he had left the firm by 1981. Working in a bureaucracy was not for him; what's more, in rubbing up against ever greater sums of money during his time at Bear, he began to feel the need to grab his own piece of the action.

In 1982, according to those who know Epstein, he set up his own shop, J. Epstein and Co., which remains his core business today. The premise behind it was simple: Epstein would manage the individual and family fortunes of clients with $1 billion or more. Which is where the mystery deepens. Because according to the lore, Epstein, in 1982, immediately began collecting clients. There were no road shows, no whiz-bang marketing demos -- just this: Jeff Epstein was open for business for those with $1 billion–plus.
Ahahahaha billion dollar clients just appeared in his pocket

Quote
Newly disclosed excerpts of emails and letters exchanged by prosecutors and Epstein's defense (and posted here) appear to indicate that federal authorities and Epstein's lawyers worked to limit information judges might receive about aspects of the deal, which involved Epstein pleading guilty to a state charge in exchange for a guarantee not to prosecute him in federal court.
The exchanges "demonstrate that the victims' allegations of a conspiracy between the Government and Epstein's attorneys to conceal the existence of a broad non-prosecution agreement are not mere speculation, but appear to be well supported," Edwards and Cassell wrote. They added that one email "shows the parties negotiating to keep the judge in the dark about the full nature of the plea arrangement, as well as keeping the victims (i.e. 'the girls') in the dark about the plea agreement until after Epstein's plea. It also shows the prosecutors setting up a meeting with the defense attorneys that would be 'off campus' — i.e., outside the ordinary course of business."
Ayyy lmao how horrible, what a shame the investigation ended before his co-conspirators were found - who knows what powerful names would've popped up?

Quote
At the heart of this week’s court filings is a deal Epstein reached with federal prosecutors in September of 2007 that spared him from a federal prosecution. After an extensive investigation by the Palm Beach police and the FBI, the Justice Department effectively immunized Epstein for multiple alleged offenses involving underage girls in exchange for his guilty pleas to two comparatively minor sex crimes in Florida state court. And Epstein’s lawyers persuaded the federal government to keep the terms of the agreement secret, according to the court filing by victims’ attorneys Bradley Edwards and Paul Cassell.

On the day the deal was signed, an attorney for Epstein sent an email to the federal prosecutor handling the case which read, “Please do whatever you can to keep this from becoming public,” according to an email exchange attached to Wednesday’s filing.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/victims-feds-hid-sweetheart-deal-sex-offender-deep/story?id=36843144
hahaha just end me
This is just one powerful pedo, how many escape scrutiny because they have powerful connections? I can't say for the USA, because thus far epstein is the only one US authorities have been seen to go after, and they only gave him months and protected his associates. However, countries that dig, find dirt.
Perhaps it is a case of how people are shaped by their leaders, so in this sense it makes sense why the US or Europe is more tolerant of pedophiles and more cautious of ruining the lives of innocents accused in wild mania, whilst the UK is currently led by the woman who was in charge of investigating the watchmen who failed (or worse, colluded) with VIPedos. Law courts, police, politics, finance, religion, LGBT, media, military, there is no institution immune from corruption, and this is one of the worst.

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The policy has endured as American forces have recruited and organized Afghan militias to help hold territory against the Taliban. But soldiers and Marines have been increasingly troubled that instead of weeding out pedophiles, the American military was arming them in some cases and placing them as the commanders of villages — and doing little when they began abusing children.

“The reason we were here is because we heard the terrible things the Taliban were doing to people, how they were taking away human rights,” said Dan Quinn, a former Special Forces captain who beat up an American-backed militia commander for keeping a boy chained to his bed as a sex slave. “But we were putting people into power who would do things that were worse than the Taliban did — that was something village elders voiced to me.”

The policy of instructing soldiers to ignore child sexual abuse by their Afghan allies is coming under new scrutiny, particularly as it emerges that service members like Captain Quinn have faced discipline, even career ruin, for disobeying it.
The West deserves to fall apart for ignoring this, I mean bloody hell we talk so much about muh narrative, muh pr, all in an attempt to stop jihadists from having material to recruit with, yet we arm pedos

The sad thing is, this is not even at the very least confined to degerenate western nations. It's the world

That should sum up why I view such attempts by esteemed morally void rags like Salon to make pedophilia acceptable with immediate vehemence. Not the first time they've shown support for pedophile campaigns. Part of the problem, another obstacle to confront. It is simply unacceptable that powerful people willingly rub shoulders with people they know are pedophiles, catching pedos means nothing if they are never brought to justice or hospitals or whatever the hell you want to do with them.

Reelya

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16316 on: December 29, 2016, 12:12:58 am »

That's a complete mischaracterization, pedophilic desires are a pathological compulsion, not a sexual orientation. Hence why it can be meaningfully predicted from factors like being an abuse victim, while sexual orientations can't.

Now you are making the same mistake, confusing the two. Pedosexual activity (acting out on the sexual attraction to children) is a pathological compulsion, which not even nescessarily involves being pedophile. There's people who molest children, but are not a pedophile, just a psychopath). Pedophilia (having a sexual attraction to children) isn't, people are born with it, just like they are born with being gay. At least that's how it's taught in social studies and pedagogic studies here in the Netherlands.
We did ban the pedophile 'self-help groups' a few years ago though because they were often used as a platform for pedosexuals.
Sounds like they got the right of things. It's closer to a mental disorder or sexuality than some kind of villainous choice.

Whoa, whoa there.  Yes, there's indications it's partially a mental disorder, but molesting kids is a choice and people who perpetuate this kind of thing should absolutely be held responsible for that.

But the articles linked were about people who were attracted to children but had never done anything about it. In a similar sense that being attracted to women doesn't automatically make you a rapist.

That's what LW's linked articles were about: some guy admitting he had the attraction, but who said he was horrified by the idea of ever acting out on it. The puritans are arguing that it's ideologically suspect to even broach the discussion about that, but the counter-argument is that this specific pathology is much more prevalent than we admit, and most people who have a one-way attraction never act out in it. We've just whitewashed the discussion by pariah-ing anyone who admits being attracted as if they're an automatic rapist, when that's probably not the case. We've deep-sixed the topic so far down that we can't collect data about risk factors vs non-risk-factors because anyone involved is shit-scared to talk to anyone about it. If you read the literature on the topic, they often talk about how hard it is to get data. And the good reason for that is society's attitude.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 12:25:56 am by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16317 on: December 29, 2016, 12:30:21 am »

It doesn't help that the USA's "Sex Offender" program is incredibly "puritan" where a LOT of things can get you on that freeken list such as peeing in a bush.

And the things you have to do on the Sex offender program is basically "Hey everyone! I am a sex offender! Hate me! HATE ME!!! I WILL SEX OFFEND YOU! HIDE EVERYONE!!!"

AS WELL America is against "recovering sex offenders" pretty strongly. In fact Law and Order has an entire episode devoted to a recovering sex offender that pretty much highlights that viewpoint. (well ok... that isn't AMERICA's view I don't think... But America can be quite... anti-rehabilitation at times)

Edit: Ok I should be more fair. America isn't Anti-rehabilitation. They just believe that a criminal should pay for their crimes forever... which runs contrary to rehabilitation.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 12:33:43 am by Neonivek »
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Reelya

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16318 on: December 29, 2016, 12:34:32 am »

It doesn't help that in many parts of the USA they treat doing it consensually with a 17 year old the same as raping a little kid, on the sex offenders registry you go, for life, in both cases. Completely illogical. Especially in places that don't have a "romeo and juliet" clause. Some guy "18yo plus one day" is a pedo because they did it with a girl "18yo minus one day" on the literal day they turned 18 but before she turned 18. Doing it on any other day would have been completely ok however (both would have been minors or adults).

Seriously, that's a whole clusterfuck political issue in itself. The sex-offender system in America is ridiculous, it makes no differentiation between minor basically-non-crimes and sadistic rape.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/sex_offender_registry_stupidity/
Quote
Wendy Whitaker has been listed as a sex offender for 12 year and is danger of losing her house because of a decade old blowjob. When she had just turned 17 she performed oral sex on a classmate who was 3 weeks shy of his 16th birthday.
It's one of the silly cases I was talking about. If the BJ had been before her 17th birthday, or after his 16th, she would have been in the clear. There was that 3-week window where she was a pedo. If their ages were closer together, it could theoretically have been a 2-day window I was talking about.

https://www.wired.com/2007/04/sexdrive-0420/
https://www.wired.com/2007/02/protect-the-children-from-porn/
Gotta be the stupidest thing I ever heard. A substitute teacher is being charged as a sex offender because she couldn't stop internet pop-up adverts showing porn to some schoolchildren. When the school totally didn't have their malware/security shit up to date.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 12:56:19 am by Reelya »
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Antioch

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Language Enrichment Edition
« Reply #16319 on: December 29, 2016, 06:44:52 am »

Seriously, Europe isn't perfect, but we never get stories about laws as completely batshit crazy as in the US.
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