Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Vilanat]

Yeah, that's a serious problem.

[smjjames]

I'm not going 'too much disagree, therefore wrong' at it, it's just not very clearly written, the initial premise is supposedly 'Trump isn't racist', then evolves into some sort of 'whites aren't racist' argument' or something, then goes into a meltdown at the end. It's just not very coherent, or convincing.

Yeah, that's a serious problem.

Yes, the whole safe spaces (at least what they got turned into), trigger warnings, and microagressions (whatever the heck those are) are ridiculous.

Also, incoming constitutional/ethical crisis that Trump likely can't avoid: http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/17/news/companies/trump-hotel-labor-dispute/index.html The guy has conflicts of interest up the wazoo.

[Shadowlord]

"Too much disagree?" If that's why you think we stopped reading, you've misunderstood what we were saying.

Don't misunderestimate our ability to discern bad propaganda.

[smjjames]

I wasn't sure what weird said was aimed at. I found it somewhat incoherent and over half of it seemed to be trying to argue that 'whites aren't racist'.

[wierd]

I just skimmed it again.

Yes, cherry picked, but data presented.
Refutation not based on data with better data. Refutation based on pure internal reaction, thus, "disagree".

Is it likely misleading? Yes. Does that make his data wrong? No. Does his data present an inaccurate representation of reality? Possibly-- that requires better data in refutation. Is bland dismissal proper? No.

[Lord Shonus]

I wasn't sure what weird said was aimed at. I found it somewhat incoherent and over half of it seemed to be trying to argue that 'whites aren't racist'.

It appears to mean that "a huge part of the left thinks any disagreement with someone is an attack on their identity." I think this is correct.

[wierd]

Yes. That is the thesis of my initial reaction.

The counterstroke, is that such castigation erodes banality, and turns it into animosity.

It creates the very racism it demonizes.

[Frumple]

That's not nearly something limited to the left, sho, heh.

[PTTG??]

Yes, the whole safe spaces (at least what they got turned into), trigger warnings, and microagressions (whatever the heck those are) are ridiculous.

Having actually read about them rather than jokes about them, they are perfectly reasonable. Safe spaces have always existed -- they used to be called home or church. It's not a problem to provide a place where someone can avoid stressors. Trigger warnings occurred in the '50s; "If you have a weak heart, be prepared to step outside the room." For people who don't know what microagressions are, I recommend Citizen: An American Lyric, by Claudia Rankine, which hammers the point home.

The invention of the SJW is an intentional framing of several liberal positions specifically to weaken the liberal coalition of the organized working class, the educated, and minority groups.

Use rationality and research to blow away the smokescreen an you will see that the actions of a few teenagers are being extrapolated to some kind of massive movement.

[Shadowlord]

That isn't what the article was saying, at least in the first three sections, wierd, and cherry-picked data isn't data anymore, it's just garbage. I, for one, have no desire to waste time trying to rebut garbage.

[smjjames]

I wasn't sure what weird said was aimed at.

It appears to mean that "a huge part of the left thinks any disagreement with someone is an attack on their identity." I think this is correct.

AKA all that safe space, microagression (is that the 'any disagreement' part?), and cultural appropriation stuff. Though that's the more extreme manifestation of it.

Yes, the whole safe spaces (at least what they got turned into), trigger warnings, and microagressions (whatever the heck those are) are ridiculous.

Having actually read about them rather than jokes about them, they are perfectly reasonable. Safe spaces have always existed -- they used to be called home or church. It's not a problem to provide a place where someone can avoid stressors. Trigger warnings occurred in the '50s; "If you have a weak heart, be prepared to step outside the room." For people who don't know what microagressions are, I recommend Citizen: An American Lyric, by Claudia Rankine, which hammers the point home.

The invention of the SJW is an intentional framing of several liberal positions specifically to weaken the liberal coalition of the organized working class, the educated, and minority groups.

Use rationality and research to blow away the smokescreen an you will see that the actions of a few teenagers are being extrapolated to some kind of massive movement.

Or 'not for the faint of heart'

Except that the safe spaces and microagressions and trigger warnings were taken to a ridiculous extreme where it was actually leading to dividing people and even preventing or discouraging healthy discussion.

[wierd]

The Russians called them useful idiots in the cold war.

We just handed them a really big microphone set on full reverb.

Instead of the KGB, we have wholly domestic forces using them though, in both directions.

To blow the smoke off requires intellectual rigor; that means addressing cherry picked data with proper data, and similar objective methods. (You don't actually KNOW the data is cherry picked until you see the full dataset.)

Not subjective dismissal.

[smjjames]

I wasn't subjectively dismissing the article, I don't think.

[Max™]

http://pages.uoregon.edu/koopman/courses_readings/rorty/rorty_achieving_country_ch1.pdf

Members of labor unions, and unorganized unskilled workers, will sooner or later realize that their government is not even trying to prevent wages from sinking or to prevent jobs from being exported. Around the same time, they will realize that suburban white collar workers--themselves desperately afraid of being downsized--are not going to let themselves be taxed to provide social benefits for anyone else.

At that point, something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking around for a strongman to vote for--someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesmen, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots...

One thing that is very likely to happen is that the gains made in the past forty years by black and brown American,s and by homosexuals, will be wiped out. Jocular contempt for women will come back into fashion... All the resentment which badly educated Americans feel about having their manners dictated to them by college graduates will find an outlet.

A salient piece, must have been watching the run up to Trump huh...

--Achieving Our Country: Leftist Thought in Twentieth-Century America, 1998

Dammit.

[smjjames]

http://pages.uoregon.edu/koopman/courses_readings/rorty/rorty_achieving_country_ch1.pdf

Members of labor unions, and unorganized unskilled workers, will sooner or later realize that their government is not even trying to prevent wages from sinking or to prevent jobs from being exported. Around the same time, they will realize that suburban white collar workers--themselves desperately afraid of being downsized--are not going to let themselves be taxed to provide social benefits for anyone else.

At that point, something will crack. The nonsuburban electorate will decide that the system has failed and start looking around for a strongman to vote for--someone willing to assure them that, once he is elected, the smug bureaucrats, tricky lawyers, overpaid bond salesmen, and postmodernist professors will no longer be calling the shots...

One thing that is very likely to happen is that the gains made in the past forty years by black and brown American,s and by homosexuals, will be wiped out. Jocular contempt for women will come back into fashion... All the resentment which badly educated Americans feel about having their manners dictated to them by college graduates will find an outlet.

A salient piece, must have been watching the run up to Trump huh...

--Achieving Our Country: Leftist Thought in Twentieth-Century America, 1998

Dammit.

Or the first page with publisher information even.

But yes, that person is pretty farsighted (or foreseeing) for seeing that issue then.