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[Phmcw]

Well Trump believes everything he says.

But he knows the difference between idealism and reality.

Sure in his ideal world there would be no illegal immigrants or heck he would rather they all be put in jail... but that isn't realistic.

Yeah, sure, Trump is 100% honest as a politician. He also sells a bridge, nice prices, excellent view.

[Neonivek]

Well Trump believes everything he says.

But he knows the difference between idealism and reality.

Sure in his ideal world there would be no illegal immigrants or heck he would rather they all be put in jail... but that isn't realistic.

Yeah, sure, Trump is 100% honest as a politician. He also sells a bridge, nice prices, excellent view.

PFT naw Trump isn't 100% honest.

He just doesn't hide his ideals... very well at least. We already seen in his... sexism scandals how well he hid his "Women who work for me owe it to me not to complain about my womanizing. They should just quit and get another job if I assault them"

Which isn't directly related to sexism mind you... His belief is "As a boss, my employees owe me discression for all I have done for them as a boss. If I do something bad, they should just gracefully resign and not hinder the boss"

I am sure he would have the same belief if the Scandal was about some male employees he beat up. That they shouldn't charge him or call the papers. They should quit and find a new job.

[Phmcw]

PFT naw Trump isn't 100% honest.

He just doesn't hide his ideals... very well at least.

Yeah, as a cosmopolitan Billionaire that used to be Democrat, I'm sure that illegals in America are his first personal priority.

Seriously, get back on earth, it's freaky. Between democrats that seems to believe that he's Hitler second coming and "killary's a satanist pedophile" Trumpists, this election is really eye opening on how propaganda and groupthink get peoples to believe anything.


Let's start by a fact, compared to the 2009-2012 period, (so under liberal champion Obama) how many peoples have been deported by America?

[Neonivek]

Yes... Damn me and knowing Trump's history, viewpoints, and listening to him!

I should instead just completely impose a vision of Trump onto him that is more... Ideal for my political views.

"Yeah, as a cosmopolitan Billionaire that used to be Democrat, I'm sure that illegals in America are his first personal priority."

For example... This!

You put that word into my mouth, specifically because you need to in order to defend Trump.

Since my belief is more that Trump is part of the "Illegals are unfair" demographic then anything. Yet in order to make that view unreasonable I have to believe that Trump has a specific vendetta against illegals... Thus I need to be painted that way.

[Phmcw]

Answer my question : from 2009 to 2012, how many peoples were deported?

[Neonivek]

Answer my question : from 2009 to 2012, how many peoples were deported?

Your leading. Specifically as a way to Strawman me, because if I answered that question you would paint it as me agreeing with you reluctantly.

And... If I don't answer it, I am avoiding the question aren't I?

However the REAL situation is your telling people reading what my viewpoint is... Whether or not that is actually what it is.

Answer your own question. I've caught up to the Republican narrative.

[Phmcw]

About 2 millions.

https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics

Trump PROMISED in his campain a 33% increase over that number. Did you have this impression before this post?

[Neonivek]

Did you have this impression before this post?

Did you know that the overwhelming majority of those were at the border?

To increase that by 33% means he would have to deport that 33% from the interior... Since he cannot realistically affect the boarder.

So... Let me see... 2 million 33% of those are 600,000... a fifth are interior...

Trump wants to more then double interior deportation. 2.5 more interior deportations.

A good way to do it is to start deporting more of the prison population. Yet I am not sure treaties with Mexico would allow it.

[Reelya]

    Well it's a bit more than that. The highest ever removals was 400,000 in one year. so close to 1.5 million over 4 years. and it's actually much lower now, as the graph shows (1 million every 4 years).

    If Trump actually removes 3 million in one term then that's double what happened in 2009-2012, not 33% higher.

[Neonivek]

Well it's a bit more than that. The highest ever removals was 400,000 in one year. so close to 1.5 million over 4 years. and it's actually much lower now, as the graph shows (1 million every 4 years).

If Trump actually removes 3 million in one term then that's double what happened in 2009-2012, not 33% higher.

The issue as I said is realistically an increase in removals would have to be done at the interior.

I mean he could strengthen border patrol. (yes I know I am doing boarder and border... I can't tell the difference between those)

And Interior removal is far pricier (Exterior removal can cost nothing)

[Phmcw]

Did you have this impression before this post?

Did you know that the overwhelming majority of those were at the border?

Well... no.I didn't notice it.

It change the numbers but still, the way it's reported on, you'd think the US are not currently deporting anyone.
And beside, antoher part of my point is that, being an electoral promise, he can get away with deporting 2 millions easily. (yes I failed the addition)

[Neonivek]

Well... no.

I didn't notice it.

Its fine... I am far more often oblivious then everyone here combined.

[Reelya]

But if you look at the graph, deportations in Obama's first term didn't really change from Bush. 2008 was 370,000. The peak in 2012 was 400,000. After that, ICE officials say that Obama's policies brought it down (deportations are now around half what they were).

I'd say the rate of deportations was due to pre-existing policy, because there wasn't actually anything new that happened in Obama's first term compared to the end of the previous term.

As for Trump, the campaign promise was always 11 million. Is that over 1 term or 2 terms? If 1 term then that's 2.75 million per year, or 7 times the peak rate of 2012. Or 11 times the 2015 rate.

Now after the election he's saying 2-3 million people. Which is the entire 8 years worth of deportations under Obama (the higher rate of which started with Bush however). Assuming again he's making good his promises in one term, that's 2-3 times the number deported in Obama's second term, which was after the Executive Orders were created to halt deportations.

[Cheeetar]

Gosh, Phmcw, these statistics that you linked are really hurting your own argument.

[Phmcw]

But if you look at the graph, deportations in Obama's first term didn't really change from Bush. 2008 was 370,000. The peak in 2012 was 400,000. After that, ICE officials say that Obama's policies brought it down (deportations are now around half what they were).

I'd say the rate of deportations was due to pre-existing policy, because there wasn't actually anything new that happened in Obama's first term compared to the end of the previous term.

Well yeah, the interior ICE dropped sharply. If Trump get them back to Bush's level he'll hold most of his promise.

Immigration is such a weird issue for me, because I think it isn't a bad thing if it's kept at reasonable level and coupled with the appropriate funding for education and law enforcement.
But I know by experience that if you just dump them in the country, you'll create a lot of issue for the working class : increase competition for low end jobs, surge of break of workplace regulation by unscrupulous employers, heightened criminality (they topically comes from countries with higher criminality),....


Also economic immigration is an anti-worker policy but it's pushed as a left wing policy under the guise of some king of "solidarity".