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[Neonivek]

Not all and it isn't some Mexican conspiracy, illegal immigrants do have significantly higher violent crime rates than US citizens. Saying that make me racist too?

Can you PROVE that statement? Now I know I can post any number of articles that prove this wrong (In fact they commit significantly less violent crimes then regular US citizens), but I have yet to see one that supports it. So I am curious where you get your info from.

And fine, I guess I'll be fair and call you a Racist.

You Sir... Are a racist. Ok you didn't do enough yet. Trump still has other things that sort of... help with that (afterall believing that Mexican illegal immigrants are all dirty vagrants are one thing... But has Trump said anything about OTHER races?)

He was making fun of her. Makes him an ass, not a sexist. I didn't care the Bill got a BJ, I don't care that Trump makes fun of people. I care about policy.

You know... Jokes at the expense of women specifically targeting the fact that she is a woman. Freeken hilarious!

Also being a Serial Ass towards women is kind of the definition of being a sexist isn't it?

[MasterFancyPants]

Even without the namecalling, the discussion is meaningless. Nobody ever makes a serious attempt to reach across the aisle. I'm not trying to get people to change their position, but to let them know that they may not be alone in their thoughts. That there are those willing to stand up against the liars that would abuse the system to their undeserved favor.

Yes, that is directed at a great number of you. I challenge you to martyr me.

Wat?

[Flying Dice]

Anyone else catch the above-the-fold NYT today? Obviously there was the dose of the "no look see we're talking about policy positions and issues and definitely not scandals and narratives" bug that they've all collectively caught a few fucking months too late, but there was something better.

It was a story about the Obama - Trump meet. Talking about how they went much longer than anyone expected, said separately after the fact that they'd found respect for the other, about how Trump looked nervous and hesitant throughout. Those fuckers, they're banking on us still being in the bizarro-world statistical outlier timeline where Obama and Trump become good friends, Trump makes Obama his closest advisor, and Obama's true legacy is guiding Trump into becoming an excellent, even-handed president who serves the people and not the parties or corporations.

Yeah, and that last sentence was the safe-phrase for Earth, any minute now Gaia will manifest and say that she didn't realize we didn't want to be fucked with the metaphorical 14" sandpaper-and-steel strap-on, that the oil fields are all replenished, the biosphere is balanced, carbon emissions are now an oxy-nitrogen mix that smells faintly of lavender, and AIDS doesn't exist any more.

[smjjames]

These things happen constantly; people just aren't allowed to talk about it. The collective forum is worth nothing if nobody is able or willing to discuss the issues.

So, report me, as I'm sure you will. Everyone already knows the whole thing is a farce, including you.

As long as you're civil, nobody's going to report you. If you want to have a discussion, sure, go ahead, just don't resort to name calling.

It's A LOT harder to have a meaningful discussion if you resort to namecalling.

What issues are you talking about? I'm sure you can discuss them while being civil, and no, I don't mean politically correct, I mean polite.

There's been discussion on conservative issues before without screaming at each other.

Even without the namecalling, the discussion is meaningless. Nobody ever makes a serious attempt to reach across the aisle. I'm not trying to get people to change their position, but to let them know that they may not be alone in their thoughts. That there are those willing to stand up against the liars that would abuse the system to their undeserved favor.

Yes, that is directed at a great number of you. I challenge you to martyr me.

If by martyr, you mean ban, no, we aren't going to do that.

You said you wanted to discuss something, so, start the discussion.

[Rolan7]

Haha, gun control?  I wish you'd visited this thread earlier, you could have been enlightened.  Trump was speaking *absolute nonsense* when he said she wanted to take your guns.  Much like Republicans claimed against Obama.  Her actual agenda was simply closing loopholes NOTHING MORE.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm

Clinton wanting to start a cold war is so incredibly unfounded that I can't even imagine what could possible convince you otherwise.  Meanwhile Trump literally suggested using nuclear weapons.  But he's vapid and flippant, so let's assume that his handlers will stop him (like they cut off his twitter, which is probably part of how he manged to win).

She was investigated for years about the emails and no misconduct was found.  Colin Powell, Trump, and other Republicans mishandled sensitive data in very similar ways...  Ignored by the mainstream media.

Believe what you like.  It's like I said, rationalism is over.  My bet is we're done playing nice and going for the middle, it's now progress or bust.

"Closing the loopholes" Lingo like this already shows you know nothing about US gun control.
Clinton has and still does support an AWB 2.0. Guess what that, bans certain guns by name. (Ones that are responsible for less than 250 deaths per year [Less than knives 1550 and Sticks 435] BTW)
Obama has already banned guns. See: https://www.thetrace.org/2015/07/m1-rifle-antique-south-korea-import/ (That's a liberal site, fyi)
He also supported another AWB.

Clinton is hostile towards Russia and wants to interfere with them as the US did before and during the height of the Cold War, I don't see how you are going to get around that.
Trump wants to warm relations with other nuclear superpowers while keeping MAD in place. (You know the MAD that prevented the Cold War from going hot in the first place? Yeah, so terrible he supports that.)

"no misconduct was found" Yeah, that sure didn't have anything to due with Her being insanely powerful, plus having a current and former president at her back. Did Petraeus get similar treatment?
Is jail warranted? Probably not. Does it show her incompetence/dishonesty? Yes.

Colin Powell, Trump, and other Republicans mishandled sensitive data in very similar ways...  Ignored by the mainstream media.
Such as?

And of course you close with: You must be irrational since you disagree with me.

AWB, whatever could that mean...  Oh right - Assault Weapons Ban.  Funny how you hid that behind a bland acronym

As for Colin Powell mishandling data, I'll link it again.  I don't blame you for the thread moving fast, but it is your fault for not knowing about it from the election:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/08/former-secretary-state-colin-powell-gave-clinton-tips-for-private-email-use.html

And... Clinton bullied the FBI, when the conservatives in charge of congress desperately wanted her found guilty
Uh-huh...  Next you'll say 9/11 wasn't an inside job (I jest, but seriously that's some tinfoil theory you've got there)
That totally explains why the FBI came out with "Oh hey MAYBE she was actually guilty!" a couple days before the election.  Oh yeah, absolutely on her payroll.  "oops nope haha jk" they then admitted.

I said the entire USA is voting irrationally.
If you take that as a personal attack, that's on you.  Don't be so sensitive.

[Frumple]

They expected record high turnout - what we actually got was a record low one;

Not even remotely true, actually. It was below '08 or so, from what we've seen so far, but in terms of percentile and raw numbers it's still pretty up there. Wasn't particularly record breaking either way on the net. Looked worse when the election was called, but, well, there was still quite a few votes to count.

They expected Hillary smashing through with Donald having no path to victory - we got Trump winning big league

Winning the EC, anyway. Not sure managing that with a <1% of the population difference in voting (at the time it was called) is big league, either.

It's really fucking scary that so many supposedly smart, well-educated and knowledgeable people could be all so very wrong at the same time.

FTFE, my friend. Many folks weren't terribly wrong -- off, but not substantially. But we don't hear about "Polls almost got it right" or "predictions off, but we've seen much worse", we hear, well. "So very wrong".

I'm fucking certain at this point that if the election situation was reversed, with Trump winning popular vote but losing EC, we'd be hearing the "Electoral College is a perfectly fine system guys, it defends democracy against populists!!1" all over the fucking goddamned shit place called "Internet social media".

You'd hear it in places, sure, but liberals were grumbling about the EC all through the obama years near as much. It's not a well liked institution. Well, I guess it would be better to say it would be said in places, but you'd hear it goddamn everywhere because FTFE.

[Neonivek]

Trust me NO ONE likes EC victories.

I am sure even the hardcore Republicans have a bad taste in their mouth with how the victory was won.

It is like winning a boxing match because you accidentally stepped on the opponent's toes.

[smjjames]

Trust me NO ONE likes EC victories.

I am sure even the hardcore Republicans have a bad taste in their mouth with how the victory was won.

It is like winning a boxing match because you accidentally stepped on the opponent's toes.

The movement I mentioned the other day has bipartisan support btw.

[Rolan7]

In my bid to transform into a Berniebro, let me say that "fixing" the electoral college is pointless compared to fixing FPTP!
Massive overwhelming positive change or bust!

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Undoing FPTP for the Presidency essentially requires getting rid of the EC first. A comprehensive amendment could solve them simultaneously, but that's unlikely. As is, the Interstate Compact is the only thing that has a chance.

I somehow doubt our new Congress will be amenable to passing an amendment on this to the states.

[MasterFancyPants]

Not all and it isn't some Mexican conspiracy, illegal immigrants do have significantly higher violent crime rates than US citizens. Saying that make me racist too?

Can you PROVE that statement? Now I know I can post any number of articles that prove this wrong (In fact they commit significantly less violent crimes then regular US citizens), but I have yet to see one that supports it. So I am curious where you get your info from.

And fine, I guess I'll be fair and call you a Racist.

You Sir... Are a racist. Ok you didn't do enough yet. Trump still has other things that sort of... help with that (afterall believing that Mexican illegal immigrants are all dirty vagrants are one thing... But has Trump said anything about OTHER races?)

He was making fun of her. Makes him an ass, not a sexist. I didn't care the Bill got a BJ, I don't care that Trump makes fun of people. I care about policy.

You know... Jokes at the expense of women specifically targeting the fact that she is a woman. Freeken hilarious!

Also being a Serial Ass towards women is kind of the definition of being a sexist isn't it?

How about stats, from the US GAO? http://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf
Now, take the rates and compare them to these (which does not separate Illegals/nonillegals): https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43

So, assuming that crime rates have been relatively constant (they have been in a slow decline, since forever):
Divide the GAO numbers by the number of years covered in the report (this varies) and divide them against the FBI numbers to get the rate of US crime committed by illegals.
Give about a 10 point margin of error because none of us aren't going to do a full statically analysis.

Tell me about how stats are racist too.

I assume you've seen this channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCboMX_UNgaPBsUOIgasn3-Q
You going to call them sexist too? Even the girls who also make sexist jokes?

[Sergarr]

Also I love it how the same Democrats I was referring to in my previous post have suddenly turned from "gun control"-ers into gun-lovers, and from "less state rights is good" into "more state rights is good" over a single night.

Wait, did I say "love"? I meant "fucking appalled at the sheer hypocrisy".

Also I'd like to join into the FTFE movement, because really, fuck the media, it was complete shit during this entire election season. It's fucking incredible just how little on-the-ground work they've done for the whole election season.

"Journalism"? What even is that? Nah, never heard of it! It's not like it's our sworn duty to spread factually correct information around, and exert all efforts possible in order to obtain such!

No, let's just focus on getting easy ratings by spreading scandals around, it's not like it would unevenly affect the election with one person whose entire past career revolved around practically bathing in scandals and emerging with a winning attitude, and with other person looking like a low-energy boring unpalatable loser, SAD!

Tremendous! Yes, this will make us win big league! Make Media Great Again!

* Sergarr spits

[smjjames]

Well, the interstate compact is a step in the right direction, and both parties will definetly be watching how Maine's experiment goes.

California is also doing it's own experiment with the 'top two' system since 2010, which would actually mesh well with ranked voting.

Change to the FPTP system and the EC isn't likely to happen in one sudden massive change, but a path is definetly being opened in Maine. Wonderful how two of the most liberal states in the US are trailblazing.

Anyway, in Trump transition news stuff, Mike Pence will now lead the transition team with Christie demoted to vice-chair. Statement in The Guardian liveblog with an updated list of members, and lots of new members, including Peter Thiel, and Pam Bondi. Yes, the Florida AG who Trump had paid for something or other.

Also, CNN has said that sources are saying Reince Preibus will be Chief of Staff, or is highly likely to be in the position.

Considering how Cheney had a high position on the transition team, I wonder if Pence will end up wielding as much power as Cheney did. Considering that Trump is much more susceptible to power usurpation if he doesn't see it coming.

[Frumple]

Sweet gribbly fuck, trump's picked ken blackwell as head of domestic policy for his transition team. So much for the remote possibility of the LGBT community becoming less worried.

[MasterFancyPants]

AWB, whatever could that mean...  Oh right - Assault Weapons Ban.  Funny how you hid that behind a bland acronym

As for Colin Powell mishandling data, I'll link it again.  I don't blame you for the thread moving fast, but it is your fault for not knowing about it from the election:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/08/former-secretary-state-colin-powell-gave-clinton-tips-for-private-email-use.html

And... Clinton bullied the FBI, when the conservatives in charge of congress desperately wanted her found guilty
Uh-huh...  Next you'll say 9/11 wasn't an inside job (I jest, but seriously that's some tinfoil theory you've got there)
That totally explains why the FBI came out with "Oh hey MAYBE she was actually guilty!" a couple days before the election.  Oh yeah, absolutely on her payroll.  "oops nope haha jk" they then admitted.

I said the entire USA is voting irrationally.
If you take that as a personal attack, that's on you.  Don't be so sensitive.

Yes, the Assault Weapons Ban, the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act.
It was a gun ban, Hillary and Obama supported, it took away guns. (Took them away, as in made them impossible to get)

I was talking about Trump specifically. Yes, that makes Powell incompetent to, like many people under Bush. It's the reason I voted Obama.

The Executive branch has much more power over the FBI then congress. Not on her payroll no, but about to be subject to her.
Is it a good idea to talk shit about your future boss, cause everyone, even Trump, thought Hillary was going to be the next US president.
And I've already said, I doubt criminal charges are in order. I think she is incompetent. It will be interesting to see what they have to say now that she won't be in power now, though.