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Author Topic: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: T+0  (Read 1411762 times)

DJ

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10725 on: November 09, 2016, 09:35:45 am »

Yeah, the troll smiley was because I reckon in this day and age setting tariffs would completely destroy your exports, and without exports you can't afford nearly as much imports, leading to USSR-style shortages of pretty much everything.
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Sprin

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10726 on: November 09, 2016, 09:36:04 am »

You know on the plus side alot of special interest groups corrupt politicians corporations main stream media and SJWs hate Donald Trump

He did manage to piss off all the right people at least
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DJ

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10727 on: November 09, 2016, 09:39:52 am »

Don't worry, China won't enjoy those jobs for long either. With the way AI has been developing lately, virtually all manufacturing jobs will be taken over by robots in a couple of decades. America's best bet would be getting early on the robo-train, but that's not very likely seeing the status science has in USA.
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Reelya

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10728 on: November 09, 2016, 09:40:42 am »

Yeah, the troll smiley was because I reckon in this day and age setting tariffs would completely destroy your exports, and without exports you can't afford nearly as much imports, leading to USSR-style shortages of pretty much everything.

My point was that the tariff itself sort of screws you over, even before you factor in retaliatory tariffs etc. If you jack up the price of something you just sell less, meaning all along the supply line people are losing jobs. Sure, they can argue they've "made" some American jobs because after the tariffs a higher percentage of the labor was American, but overall, it's not likely to offset the job losses that came about because of the tax-hike/price-hike the tariffs represent.

EDIT: As for the USSR, it's informative to really read up on why they had shortages. It turns out the real problem was that they were hit with inflationary pressures due to the oil crisis, and responded with enacting price controls. That was the new thing they did differently before and after the big shortages. In fact they'd grown from basically last place in europe before the revolution to the 2nd biggest economy in the world by 1970.

The real lesson here is about how enforcing price controls fucks you over as a way of dealing with inflation because it leads to hoarding and shortages, even if you increase production. Venezuela is seeing that now. To combat inflation the new government enacted a series of price controls, now Venezuela has massive shortages even though production and imports have actually risen. The media portrays that as "collapsing production" because it sells a better story. (also note that inflation was rampant in venezuela decades before the socialists were ever elected).
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 09:53:54 am by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10729 on: November 09, 2016, 09:41:30 am »

In response to the election outcome, Cuba has announced they will hold a 5-day military excercise, "to prepare for possible hostile actions"

Is that freaking serious?

Also, breaking news, protests break out in Oakland, saw some fires. It's begun.
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TempAcc

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10730 on: November 09, 2016, 09:44:02 am »

Cuba reacts to things it doesnt like by opressing its people and pretending it is military power is relevant, what is new?
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DJ

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10731 on: November 09, 2016, 09:45:01 am »

Yeah, the troll smiley was because I reckon in this day and age setting tariffs would completely destroy your exports, and without exports you can't afford nearly as much imports, leading to USSR-style shortages of pretty much everything.

My point was that the tariff itself sort of screws you over, even before you factor in retaliatory tariffs etc.

If you jack up the price of something you just sell less, meaning all along the supply line people are losing jobs. Sure, they can argue they've "made" some American jobs because after the tariffs a higher percentage of the labor was American, but overall, it's not likely to offset the job losses that came about because of the tax-hike/price-hike the tariffs represent.
Yeah, but then this drives the wages down, reducing costs and thus improving profit margins (even if it reduces total profit) for the companies and that money will surely trickle down and revitalize the economy :P
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10732 on: November 09, 2016, 09:57:50 am »

I guess theres still the slimmest of hopes that he'll pivot HARD to center now that he's in and won't be as bad as he looks....

still kind of proccessing this too.

what did the polls get wrong........
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TempAcc

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10733 on: November 09, 2016, 10:00:02 am »

The everything, thats what.
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Reelya

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10734 on: November 09, 2016, 10:01:16 am »

They underestimated the number of rural and working-class voters that turned out and voted Trump, apparently.

That does seem to have something to say about the narrative that "trump voters are all rich white folks".  After all, one article's evidence uses rallies as the basis. Perhaps the people who voted in the primaries and turned at the rallies aren't a complete cross-section of Trump supporters.

Maybe the polling itself had sample biases away from poorer Trump supporters. And you need to remember it's not enough to sample demographics then say "15% of type X person supports Trump", you have to scale that 15% based on a likely percentage of those people to actually turn up to vote, and it many not be symmetrical between candidates or locations.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 10:03:41 am by Reelya »
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Phmcw

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10735 on: November 09, 2016, 10:03:12 am »

Yeah, the troll smiley was because I reckon in this day and age setting tariffs would completely destroy your exports, and without exports you can't afford nearly as much imports, leading to USSR-style shortages of pretty much everything.

... yeah the world didn't exist before the 80's. Post factual politics in action guys : without total free trade, you're the USSR.
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smjjames

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10736 on: November 09, 2016, 10:04:27 am »

I'm willing to give him one chance to not screw up, but arg, this is damn stressful somewhat......
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TempAcc

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10737 on: November 09, 2016, 10:09:17 am »

WaitButWhy guy did a pretty sober article on this, a Hillary voter himself.
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Neonivek

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10738 on: November 09, 2016, 10:10:41 am »

WaitButWhy guy did a pretty sober article on this, a Hillary voter himself.

The problem I have with "it is going to be ok" is that... well... it relies HEAVILY on Trump doing the typical politician thing and not keeping any of his campaign promises and working against his own platform.
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BFEL

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Re: Doc Helgoland's Asylum for the Politically American: Judgement Day
« Reply #10739 on: November 09, 2016, 10:11:12 am »

So to the people who are talking about Trump killing LGBT rights and such just remember that Hillary woulda let hundreds of thousands of people in who consider it their holy duty to murder LGBT people.

So yeah, maybe Trump might set back your rights, sorry about that. But it seemed better to keep out the Deus Vult. Its far from perfect, but it was the best option available.
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