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Author Topic: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!  (Read 5020 times)

They Got Leader

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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2016, 12:40:56 am »

Jesus man, that sounds awesome! thanks for turning my shitty idea into something as cool as that.
You are very welcome! I have lurked on and off this forum/Dwarf Fortress for over seven years. I figure I can add in whenever.
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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2016, 01:11:08 am »

A better thing would be to allow 1 champion dwarf to defend the fort.
That's not so different what I typically do XD.

"Here, Cog, have some marksdwarf training at start."
"Here, Cog, can you mine out the soil rooms?"
"Here, Cog, go outside and tussle with wildlife."
"Here, Cog, shoot the keas."

"Here, Cog, stand here." "But wh-"

"Here, Cog, wear some armor." "Thanks." "Now stand here." "Uh-o-"

"Here, Cog, have a pet dog. Pets help your health."

"Here, Cog, go guard my woodcutters in the caverns."
"Here, Cog, go mine that FB."
"Here, Cog, go mine that wereass." *crosses fingers*

bliantfive

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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2016, 05:43:07 am »

Now just make all of the pets (modded) War Weasels!

EDIT: Just noticing that my forum rank is "Escaped Lunatic"... fitting somehow.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 05:44:42 am by bliantfive »
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Melting Sky

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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2016, 08:08:06 am »

I think perhaps a more feasible way to go about the restrictions would be to limit the number of cage traps to say 3 just so you can capture and breed war beasts, ban all other traps including complex ones such as mine cart shotguns, cave ins, artifact lures etc. Keep the ban on walling off, using draw bridges, hatches etc.

The no weapons and armor ban is a bit too brutal, perhaps just limit it to no armor and restricting weapons to iron or worse material except for artifacts weapons and armor which are allowed due to rarity and the fact that it's a sin not to use such masterpieces for that which they were dreamed of by their creators.

You should also probably make it mandatory to have at least goblins as neighbors. A tower would likely be too much.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 08:10:42 am by Melting Sky »
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gunpowdertea

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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2016, 09:19:02 am »

What about having traps but only for "collecting" the wild animals? If you do not stick them in the path close to your entrance invaders are unlikely to get caught. This is what I do, as I think cage traps are way too powerful...

... but I like the Beastmaster approach, style over substance!
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Sanctume

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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2016, 09:29:55 am »

How about only artifact weapons and armor are allowed?

Quote
No walling yourself off from the world, Goblins and other sources of !fun! must have an unobstructed way into your fort!

No walls, so no raising bridges.

But retracting bridges over deep dry moats.

Or 1x20 tile long foot paths that maze around several times before fortress entry, with 25z drops on the sides, and ballistas behind fortifications.

Entry tunnel hallways with hatch covers above, or artifact doors / flood gates are not walls.

Atom smasher hallways.

Minecart grinders, Minecart shotguns, Minecart smashers.

No cage trap, but a guest rooms for FBs---they are not traps.

No magma.  No water.  2/7 water won't kill anything.  2/7 magma on water destroys water.  So obsidianizer sounds legit.

vjek

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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2016, 09:30:34 am »

Co-incidentally, in the past week, i tried this.  I collected everything from the caverns that tried to path into my fort.  Giant naked mole dogs, giant rats, crundles, everything tameable.  Trained them, set them up against two squads of goblins, and the goblins killed them all.

The new goblins come with shields and helms.. they're tough to kill for animals.

However, two things.  I didn't have access to jabberers, which are awesome when tamed, apparently, and I didn't make them all into "war" animals, which may have helped.
The really odd part?  This same group of tamed crundles+menagerie took down two forgotten beasts quite nicely, so I figured they were up to the goblin challenge.  Not so!

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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2016, 09:45:47 am »

Creative, Sanctume, but I'd consider that to violate the spirit of the self-restriction =D

Though, hm, it's a rather mean trap, but perhaps a well-trained dwarf might be able to fight invaders inside minecart ramp bouncers, with learned and innate dodging skill ensuring disruption of arrowfire and minimal damage from carts.

That's interesting, vjek. Allow me to raise my threat estimation of goblins slightly.

Thorgrim Grudgebearer

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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2016, 10:37:05 am »

Having read the feed back, I would like to offer a bit of a revised version of the No weapons or armor challenge (probably needs to be renamed XD)!

Rules:
Do not wall yourself off from sources of !!fun!!, any threat should be able to path into your fortress!

Do not cowardly hide your dwarfs under tons of iron and steel! Your dwarfs must fight lightly and thus they must wear no armor above that of leather

Do not give your dwarfs cowardly and impure weapons, Your dwarfs must fight with basic weapons made with the most pure and basic of alloys, nothing above iron is allowed in the construction of weapons

The exception to the above rule is the most holy and pure metal of adamantine and the artifacts created by the dwarfs that are touched by the gods (this apply's to armor as well)

No traps ( unless its extremely over-complicated and dedicated to the great god of Armok) 

The exception to the above rule is cage traps, in which you are allowed to place three. However these cage traps are not to be used to impede invaders. they must be used to capture wild and dangerous creatures.

You must embark near some form of threat (I.E Goblin, tower ect)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So guys what do you think. With these adjustments do you think its viable? 

 
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Sanctume

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Re: Fort challenge: No weapons or armor!
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2016, 12:12:14 pm »

Quote
Do not give your dwarfs cowardly and impure weapons, Your dwarfs must fight with basic weapons made with the most pure and basic of alloys, nothing above iron is allowed in the construction of weapons.

..

The exception to the above rule is the most holy and pure metal of adamantine and the artifacts created by the dwarfs that are touched by the gods (this apply's to armor as well)

What do you mean above iron?  Steel.  But candy is allowed?
So basically, no use of Steel for weapons and armors, except for steel artifact?

Cage trap: Max 3 for capturing animals to be used for training.

Quote
No traps ( unless its extremely over-complicated and dedicated to the great god of Armok)

So a dodge trap which is 1x20ish long tile foot path full of weapon traps with 25z deep drop on each side is a "simple trap." 
But adding water cannons  triggered by pressure plates to push invaders off the side is over complicated enough? 

What about 1 tile paths with magma mist generators via circular screw pumps?

--

Suggestion / Discussion:

Rule 1. There should be unobstructed path into the fortress at all times.  Moreover, there should be a 3+ wide road from fortress entrance to the outside be it on the surface or a cavern. 

Reason: Constructed roads will not allow weapon traps built on it.  At least 3 wide, minimizes dodge down to death type defenses, even when flooding the road with water. 

Rule 2. Armor materials are restricted to cloth, wood, bone, leather, and candy only.  Artifact armors are allowed regardless of material.

Rule 3. Weapon materials are restricted wood, bone, and candy only.  Artifact weapons are allowed regardless of material.

Rule 4. A maximum of 3 cage traps are allowed.
Reason: Good luck using 3 cage traps to stop a siege of 100.  Used for capturing creatures for war training is highly encouraged.

Rule 5. Mechanical features that uses mechanism that directly cause damage is not allowed.  This includes, weapon traps, and atom smasher via raising bridge slamming down. 

Discussion.  Does a retracting bridge disappearing cause direct damage? 

- If raising bridges are not allowed, then turrets behind fortification will still be usable but has vulnerability from goblin archers to shoot back. 

- But what about wild magma crab fire turrets, wild GCS, or other weaponized range FBs? Sure a player can wall them in with the fortification exposed line of sight to the entrance area.  What if we do not allow walled in rooms?  A room must be accessible via door or floodgate only?  This will still allow the use of magma crabs and GCS, but will prevent weaponizing building destroyers.

- Cave in traps allowed?  It is usable once; unless you create an obsidian wall to reset  the falling chunk of earth.

Rule 6. Mechanical defenses are allowed so long as Rule 1's unobstructed path to the fortress is maintained.

Discussions. 
- Drowning chambers would break Rule 1's pathing.

- Dodge down to Deep Pit can break Rule 1; however, if the bottom of the pit does have path through out, then it's ok. 
So, does having a maximum pit depth be a rule?  I think the approximate 25z guarantees exploding into gore; with maybe 10z drop as survivable with damage.

- Minecart designs for defense would then be limited due to unable to carve tracks on roads. 



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