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[Random_Dragon]

The point being that 7 of those 11 updates added their own bugs, matching or outpacing the amount of bugs said released fixed.

Is it that absurd to hope that there'll be at least one pure bug-fixing update after the next one? Keeping in mind that there's 90% odds that the update after the impending release will add something else that'll break new things.

[PatrikLundell]

I agree with Random_Dragon that the cleaning up of recently introduced bugs has been lacking (and I basically asked for at least one more bug fix release before moving on earlier, just because it looked like most of those bugs wouldn't be dealt with, which is exactly what happened, unfortunately). While I don't have a problem with random old bugs being fixed (it's always good), I felt the number of new ones dealt with to be disappointingly few, as well as the total number squashed.

Top of my head list of issues introduced with the latest releases:
- Dorfs in trees (probably older than the latest releases, though)
- Militia selecting "overridable" need satisfaction over direct orders or ordered training
- Dorfs defying burrows to satisfy "overridable" needs
- Visiting groups not identified on petition (i.e. petition for the group, with no means to find who the members are), or any other time, for that matter
- Useless tavern keepers (as performers serve as much booze as tavern keepers do)
- Performers not performing
- Significant alcohol poisoning death rate (although this is a judgement call: at least I won't serve booze until the dorf death rate is significantly reduced)
- Lethal "non lethal" bar room brawls (well beyond the occasional accidental death)
- Dorfs incapable of satisfying needs because they won't pick suitable meals, or socialize to get friends and partners
- No means to keep (vampire) visitors away from the fortress interior. The bug announcing vampires as such at least makes allowing visitors possible
- No means to identify visitor vampires as visitors cannot be controlled or examined (the bug above is the only work around, and it's easily missed in the message stream)
- Overstaying visitors
- Hello/goodbye sieges
- Disappearing caravans/liaisons
- Books/quire artifactness causing hauling trouble (together with merchant tagging)

[MrWiggles]

And the thing with wanting bug fixes, is that for a lot of these bugs, we're kinda clueless what makes them bugs. Some of them, and seems like, feels like, a few  of them are raw typos. Other bugs might be due dummy information from systems being incomplete, dummy systems, or bugs may represent a reworking of underlying system. Which maybe impractical do until other things get done. Like, for a long while the community just wanted cows to give milk so we can get cheese. Cheesemaker dorf, was a baneful immigrant to get. And for us to get cows giving milk, was this entirely new system that cover poisons, and fireballs, and all sorts of other stuff emitted from creatures. We're in the poorest position to go, 'Get that bug', because we cant ever know what we're actually asking.

[PatrikLundell]

Yes, I'm aware that for any individual bug there might be a reason for why it's impractical to address it now. However, I doubt every newly introduced bug is there because there's an old underlying system that's in need for major rework at some appropriate future time.
The list I threw up is one of recent bugs (and I'm sure it's not complete), not a list of demands for bugs to be squashed "now!". However, I feel the desire to rush on was too strong this time, and about a month of bug fixing (and, as Random_Dragon indicates, primarily bug fixing, not additional stuff with a few fixes thrown in, but possibly bug fixing with a few minor things thrown in) ought to have made a lot to address the bug balance.

[Kathe]

This has probably being asked before, but have you considered making multi-tile creatures (either on x, y or z, or also all three)? What are the main challenges in doing this?

[MrWiggles]

This has probably being asked before, but have you considered making multi-tile creatures (either on x, y or z, or also all three)? What are the main challenges in doing this?

Yes. To some degree, its pathfinding. And there are also concerns of multitiles creatures being very easy to exploit due AI considerations of them understanding their surroundings.

[LordBaal]

This has probably being asked before, but have you considered making multi-tile creatures (either on x, y or z, or also all three)? What are the main challenges in doing this?

I think he has. At least I recall him mentioning that. Right now the only "creatures" are wagons but something like that is planed for big creatures (dratlas, monsters...). Over the challenges of doing so I couldn't know, only Toady, our mighty binarysmith could answer that.

[Shonai_Dweller]

This has probably being asked before, but have you considered making multi-tile creatures (either on x, y or z, or also all three)? What are the main challenges in doing this?

I think he has. At least I recall him mentioning that. Right now the only "creatures" are wagons but something like that is planed for big creatures (dratlas, monsters...). Over the challenges of doing so I couldn't know, only Toady, our mighty binarysmith could answer that.

He also talked about some test version with multi-tile quadrapeds lumbering about, so it's being experimented with at least.

[Random_Dragon]

I agree with Random_Dragon that the cleaning up of recently introduced bugs has been lacking (and I basically asked for at least one more bug fix release before moving on earlier, just because it looked like most of those bugs wouldn't be dealt with, which is exactly what happened, unfortunately). While I don't have a problem with random old bugs being fixed (it's always good), I felt the number of new ones dealt with to be disappointingly few, as well as the total number squashed.

Exactly. I expressed concern about how many bugs are being addressed, versus how many new ones are being created. And predictably this causes a shitstorm. ._.

[WordsandChaos]

Will more mundane items be 'owned' by individuals and family entities? As a kind of juxtaposition to the granduer of stealing the holy artefact cake tin of Urist McRoyalBaker, and the ensuing ten year long World War of Doughs, it'd be interesting to see Jeff steal Roger's socks because his have all disintegrated or he's adamant that the colour blue compliments his toenails.

[Dirst]

Will more mundane items be 'owned' by individuals and family entities? As a kind of juxtaposition to the granduer of stealing the holy artefact cake tin of Urist McRoyalBaker, and the ensuing ten year long World War of Doughs, it'd be interesting to see Jeff steal Roger's socks because his have all disintegrated or he's adamant that the colour blue compliments his toenails.

"Whose stuff was that anyway?"
"Let's see, the shield belonged to Steve Rogers, the helmet was Tony Stark's, and the pants were Bruce Banner's."
"Put the pants back.  Quietly."

[Putnam]

Exactly. I expressed concern about how many bugs are being addressed, versus how many new ones are being created.

By saying that more bugs are introduced than fixed without actually giving any evidence for it, yeah.

[thvaz]

Exactly. I expressed concern about how many bugs are being addressed, versus how many new ones are being created.

By saying that more bugs are introduced than fixed without actually giving any evidence for it, yeah.

If that was true, the game would be more unstable than ever, which is not the case.

[Random_Dragon]

I suppose yes, it is a concern based on an unprovable possibility. That does not invalidate the points that PatrikLundell brought up earlier, which honestly do a better job of stating that concern that I could.

[Quarterblue]

By saying that more bugs are introduced than fixed without actually giving any evidence for it, yeah.

Well for what it's worth I remember a time around the .40.xx series of bugfix releases where the number of bugs on mantis dipped below 1900 and now it's at 2277, so yeah the number of bugs seems to have risen. Not that it matters at all though, since a bug can be anything from a crash to a typo and if there are more features one can expect the number of bugs to rise accordingly. After all, an empty program is bug-free, so DF can be effectively said to have risen from 0  bugs to the thousands in 10 years, which sounds pretty dreadful if you don't pay close attention to what it really means. Also it matters even less when considering that Toady works on the stuff he likes and doesn't actually play the game to an extent that he can take notice of its (hypothetical lack of) playability.