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[Inarius]

I already asked a part of your question last month, to spare you the research, this is what Toady replied, more or less, to my question :

Quote from: Inarius

   

" It seems that, in the development page, you want to give a very important role to artifact(s) in the next version(s). For now, artifacts are numerous in Fortress mode, meaning that, if other fortresses and cities produce as many artifacts as us, there will be a LOT of artifacts all over the world. Does this mean less moods and artifacts in the future or is this intended ?"

I'm not sure the player fortress frequency will need to be changed.  The artifacts in other parts of the world will mostly be in other parts of the world, and I think in a gameish fashion they probably just won't make as many as player forts, so we shouldn't have a total glut.  We'll see though.  We'll have to deal with it if it gets really confusing, and if player artifacts become more magical and powerful, they might be less frequent in some worlds (while in high-magic worlds, there could be lots of magical items without them having artifact status).
 

[isitanos]

I enjoyed the 08/03/2016 development log. I love that the tower's ruling demon got killed by an elephant, those legendary beasts still kick ass as they should! It's pretty exciting that nations can go to war over a family heirloom, after all the best causes of war are the most futile ones.


I'm looking forward to them having more reasons to want the item than "it's an artifact". I guess memories of the glorious ancestor are sufficient for the family of the maker or the namer of the object, and Kobolds just steal anything shiny, but to some races and monsters it could be considered as worthless junk or just a curious trinket (i.e. not worth going to war over).

Also, I don't remember whether groups can give in to demands to avoid war? I imagine the huge goblin army showing at your door demanding you surrender "ShieldBattered the Shiny of Shinies, a wood bracelet menacing with spikes of Adamantine" so the chief's wife can wear it. Then if you actually send someone out to give the bracelet, they might leave peacefully. (Or decapitate the bearer and laugh at you and proceed with the siege, if they feel particularly cruel.)

Which reminds me that parley and emissaries would be a particularly cool game mechanic ripe for tension and betrayal.

[Vattic]

Also, I don't remember whether groups can give in to demands to avoid war? I imagine the huge goblin army showing at your door demanding you surrender "ShieldBattered the Shiny of Shinies, a wood bracelet menacing with spikes of Adamantine" so the chief's wife can wear it. Then if you actually send someone out to give the bracelet, they might leave peacefully. (Or decapitate the bearer and laugh at you and proceed with the siege, if they feel particularly cruel.)

From DF Talk episode 2.

Rainseeker:   
Is there ever going to be a time when goblins actually come and say 'we demand tribute, and then we'll go away?'
Toady:   
Yeah I mean there should be, they already do that in ... I mean they don't, I guess ... actually I don't remember if they do ... is it just the humans that do tribute relationships? Because there's these fake tribute relationships in world generation that aren't realised in any way. You could start in a fortress where every other fortress in your civilization is paying tribute to humans and you just don't hear or have anything to do with it. That kind of thing is ... I think all that stuff is up on dev next which means we're kind of starting to think about how it's going to work. It's all coming; we have this thing up on the future - post version one - goals about actual complicated diplomacy, whatever that means, where we'd actually be thinking a lot more about arrangements and individual goals and so on; but we're going to be doing a lot of that also in the pretty short term here. With things like tribute it's going to require ... I don't want to point everything back at the caravan arc because that became kind of a habit ... Really what that is shorthand for 'sites have resources and things are tracked', so that's going to have to happen kind of soon too, especially when you start sending armies out which is one of the things right after sieges are improved quite a bit, there's already going to be armies moving on the world map at that time, and your dwarves are also going to be able to send out armies after sieges are improved, and at that point we've got to start thinking about things like supply lines and so on. There's a sense in which that could be aggravating, but I think it really improves the flow of wars and so on to have to worry about that kind of thing so you just don't have strange things happening like some army marching from town to town without taking anything, just killing everything, without being supported. What I'm getting at, though, is [that] when you've got supply lines where an army's being supplied it's similar to paying tribute, to moving goods around in that way, which also goes back to the caravan arc. It's kind of a race to see which one's going to go in first, but people are going to be moving stuff around; at that point things like guys coming to you and demanding things of you instead of just trying to kill everybody would be easily attained, which would be cool.

[Untrustedlife]

Will other adventurers gain reputation as they wander the world rescuing artifacts and such?

Was thinking how amusing it would be to catch a bunch of visitors about to make off with your latest artifact. Then thought how much more interesting it would be if a bunch of legendary treasure hunters just turned up one day. Keep them around, they might be good in a fight? Send them straight to the 'special' guest room, usually reserved for nobles?

Would be fun to overhear the stories being told about local heroes in adventurer too.

They gain reputations already I believe.

I have had a companion steal a beast kill from me, and they got the "legendary hero" reputation.

So I suspect artifacts wouldnt be any different.

[Xinrai]

(Edited for a different question to satisfy the general peace of mind)
Will holy symbols become more prioritized targets for groups with an opposing sphere of worship? Will other individuals/groups prioritize artifacts as well, such as fighters preferring weapons/armor over other items or dragons wanting objects made of gold?

[MrWiggles]

What about more dynamic civilizations? Will we see civil wars over different ethics splitting a civilization in two, new colonies becoming their own civilization if they are very far apart from their homeland (especially once ships are in) or perhaps two civilizations combining to one (peacefully or not)?

Welcome to the forum! Fantastic to have you here. And you're continuing the time honor tradition of asking something thats been asked or long on the dev notes. 
Some of these elements if not all of them are either explicitly stated or will happen emergiently from the master dev list.

Though in the future these questions, when answered by ToadyOne will get, 'Sounds good. No timeline.' response.

So the answer to this question, 'sounds good, no timeline.'

[Xinrai]

So the answer to this question, 'sounds good, no timeline.'

I've been following the future of the fortress long enough to know that's completely possible. Doesn't prevent me from hoping that there'll be more insight.

[MrWiggles]

Toadyone and ThreeToe, beyond the master list they made, seem to really concentrate on the stuff their currently working on. So asking questions outside of that scope tend to not get a in depth answer. Ideological reasons for going to war, and them starting civil war is fairly reasonable thing. When it becomes the active aspect of the game, thats when you'll get that question answered more in depth.

[LordBaal]

Wait wat? Since when goblins can stablish holidays? Upon the hanging of a stinky tree hugger elf? Can we celebrate that in real life?

I'm wondering eventually, if world gen keeps going all lost artifacts would be reclaimed (or the attempts be made), or would the game tag some artifacts so there's at least some for an adventurer to reclaim or simply not everything is that valuable. It must be a really cool crossbow Renowned Gill if somebody is going against Smaug to recover it. Well if it where the Renowned Grill it could be for me.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Wait wat? Since when goblins can stablish holidays? Upon the hanging of a stinky tree hugger elf? Can we celebrate that in real life?

I'm wondering eventually, if world gen keeps going all lost artifacts would be reclaimed (or the attempts be made), or would the game tag some artifacts so there's at least some for an adventurer to reclaim or simply not everything is that valuable. It must be a really cool crossbow Renowned Gill if somebody is going against Smaug to recover it. Well if it where the Renowned Grill it could be for me.

If artifacts are constantly being stolen/plundered and also constantly being made/ordained/named, especially if certain thieves/beasts/armies are specifically targetting artifacts, I doubt they'll ever all 'settle down'. There'll almost always be something for an adventurer to do (in a large/old world anyhow).

[Xinrai]

Toadyone and ThreeToe, beyond the master list they made, seem to really concentrate on the stuff their currently working on. So asking questions outside of that scope tend to not get a in depth answer. Ideological reasons for going to war, and them starting civil war is fairly reasonable thing. When it becomes the active aspect of the game, thats when you'll get that question answered more in depth.

The question is now more related to the current focus.
If I had a time machine, I'd use it to go ask the first question later in the history of this universe.
Or maybe just go play the final version of the game, that might work...

[Nopenope]

Given how megabeasts are able of quite advanced interactions such as taking over sites, stealing artifacts (despite potentially lacking any bodypart that can grasp them) and being objects of worship, have you ever considered making them 'intelligent' in some way (whether [CAN_LEARN], [CAN_SPEAK] or whatever special tag's in store for interacting with mythic beings)? Do you have plans to expand beyond their being big dumb tameable animals once myth generation gets fleshed out and they get presumably integrated into it?

[Hinaichigo]

It seems like demons never have a chance to impersonate gods anymore because they don't seem to escape from the underworld besides at the origin of each goblin civilization, upon which they become the ruler. Was this change intentional?

[Witty]

It seems like demons never have a chance to impersonate gods anymore because they don't seem to escape from the underworld besides at the origin of each goblin civilization, upon which they become the ruler. Was this change intentional?

I asked a similar question a while ago;

In a similar vein, do you recall why deity-impersonating demons were removed as well?

All of the impersonation code is still there, so I suspect that one is just a bug that came up as a side effect of some other change, though I might be forgetting something.

The 'other changes' might be the new goblin civ origin change.

[LordBaal]

Yup. I used to generate worlds with 0 kind of demon in them, now if I do that there's no goblins then. And in fact if you up the number to 1 kind of demon it will still not produce any goblin civ (at least in my experience), at least two kind of demons are needed in pocket size worlds, and 4 for the biggest maps.