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[LordBaal]

The idea that you could only put a cannon on a ship but not on land is too silly even for this game.

Straight the Toad's mouth:

Wonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare. If not then I suppose the plan is having them filled with catapults and ballistas? Also, does the plan of adding boats includes making them in fort mode/being captain in adventurer mode? Will boats mean we could have river docks on fortress mode to trade greater quantities of merchandise?

Will you be implementing some sort of port that can be built in fortress mode? That would make ocean embark more interesting and also being able to build ships/wagons to send to trade with other cities?

I don't have a hard line on ship cannons really.  I'm not sure what we'll end up with.  That would lead to cannons on land, though, and that starts to move away from where I want vanilla to be.  It's hard to say what the first boat release would have, but we're certainly aiming for adventure mode captains.  I think it would be cool to have ships coming in vaguely like the wagons do, yeah, and we were hoping to get to it.  Underground lakes too, once we do the deep dwarf trade stuff -- that might be more dwarfy than a cliff-less ocean fort or one on a navigable river, but we'd try to support as many embarks as we can (and it should happen naturally if boats are on those waters).  Building boats at the fortress is a bit more complex and is the probably the sort of thing that would fall victim to a time shortage on the first pass, but we'll see how it all blends in with moving fortress pieces and all that.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Straight the Toad's mouth:

Wonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare. If not then I suppose the plan is having them filled with catapults and ballistas? Also, does the plan of adding boats includes making them in fort mode/being captain in adventurer mode? Will boats mean we could have river docks on fortress mode to trade greater quantities of merchandise?

Will you be implementing some sort of port that can be built in fortress mode? That would make ocean embark more interesting and also being able to build ships/wagons to send to trade with other cities?

I don't have a hard line on ship cannons really.  I'm not sure what we'll end up with.  That would lead to cannons on land, though, and that starts to move away from where I want vanilla to be.  It's hard to say what the first boat release would have, but we're certainly aiming for adventure mode captains.  I think it would be cool to have ships coming in vaguely like the wagons do, yeah, and we were hoping to get to it.  Underground lakes too, once we do the deep dwarf trade stuff -- that might be more dwarfy than a cliff-less ocean fort or one on a navigable river, but we'd try to support as many embarks as we can (and it should happen naturally if boats are on those waters).  Building boats at the fortress is a bit more complex and is the probably the sort of thing that would fall victim to a time shortage on the first pass, but we'll see how it all blends in with moving fortress pieces and all that.

Well, he is saying here that the concepts are inseparable.

[Random_Dragon]

Fire lances are the oldest gunpowder weapons, but they're far from the only ones which would qualify at a late medieval technology level. In order to cut off at fire lances you'd be putting the date at 1100, not 1400, so goodbye full plate armour and 2 hand swords.

I actually wouldn't mind an early medieval mode with maille armour and 1 hand swords and spears. Viking age dwarves.

Again, I said fire lances instead of later gunpowder weapons because: Toady already messed up by putting the cutoff date well after the advent of gunpowder weapons. Giving an example from the 1100s (that's also a lot easier to balance in a fantasy setting) means I've set my expectations a lot lower. 3:

[Daniel the Finlander]

Magical songs were mentioned in the PCgamer interview you did. Does that mean there might be, in addition to magical songs, magical poems, dances and instruments?

If so, I can't wait to make a kantele out of a giant pike's jaw and sing people into swamps.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Fire lances are the oldest gunpowder weapons, but they're far from the only ones which would qualify at a late medieval technology level. In order to cut off at fire lances you'd be putting the date at 1100, not 1400, so goodbye full plate armour and 2 hand swords.

I actually wouldn't mind an early medieval mode with maille armour and 1 hand swords and spears. Viking age dwarves.

Again, I said fire lances instead of later gunpowder weapons because: Toady already messed up by putting the cutoff date well after the advent of gunpowder weapons. Giving an example from the 1100s (that's also a lot easier to balance in a fantasy setting) means I've set my expectations a lot lower. 3:

Yep totally messed up. Despite saying that 1400 is completely arbitrary,, gunpowder absolutely existed but he doesn't (didn't?) want to include it and this being a fantasy world simulator means anything goes if he's interested in it.

Apart fom that yeah, messed up, damn that Toad and his historical ignorance.

Or was it fans latching onto something and taking it far, far too literally who messed up? No. Surely not...

[Shonai_Dweller]

Magical songs were mentioned in the PCgamer interview you did. Does that mean there might be, in addition to magical songs, magical poems, dances and instruments?

If so, I can't wait to make a kantele out of a giant pike's jaw and sing people into swamps.

I believe there's mention of magical dance buried in one of the mythgen screenshots. Rituals without magical dances would be kind of boring.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Fire lances are the oldest gunpowder weapons, but they're far from the only ones which would qualify at a late medieval technology level. In order to cut off at fire lances you'd be putting the date at 1100, not 1400, so goodbye full plate armour and 2 hand swords.

I actually wouldn't mind an early medieval mode with maille armour and 1 hand swords and spears. Viking age dwarves.

Again, I said fire lances instead of later gunpowder weapons because: Toady already messed up by putting the cutoff date well after the advent of gunpowder weapons. Giving an example from the 1100s (that's also a lot easier to balance in a fantasy setting) means I've set my expectations a lot lower. 3:

Yep totally messed up. Despite saying that 1400 is completely arbitrary,, gunpowder absolutely existed but he doesn't (didn't?) want to include it and this being a fantasy world simulator means anything goes if he's interested in it.

Apart fom that yeah, messed up, damn that Toad and his historical ignorance.

Or was it fans latching onto something and taking it far, far too literally who messed up? No. Surely not...

We aren't latching onto gunpowder because we're obsessed with everything being like it was in 1400. We (or at least I) want gunpowder in the game because it would offer different possibilities both in mining and combat, and are taking the 1400 comment to mean that Toady is generally happy with a late medieval level of technology, which includes early gunpowder.

Why is gunpowder hard to balance in a fantasy setting? The kind of cannons we are talking about here are slow to reload, difficult to forge, inaccurate, and potentially explosive. I can't see that they would be game breaking.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Not sure who your responding to. I'd love to see gunpowder in the game. 'Any type of fantasy world, who cares about balance' is the current stance so no reason it shouldn't go in. Just have to wait for Toady to become interested in adding it.

Once magical pixies start blowing things up with their breath (at the cost of half a pint of blood each time) gunpowder is just a small step away.

As I said, we're entering a stage where pretty much everything is about to become 'optional' so the concept of 'vanilla' and whether or not it should have cannons is going to be irrelevant.

[kingofthehour]

When you send squads out to other sites will they be able to conquer, pillage, or destroy the site the way armies do in legends mode, or will they only be allowed to steal artifacts

[Shonai_Dweller]

When you send squads out to other sites will they be able to conquer, pillage, or destroy the site the way armies do in legends mode, or will they only be allowed to steal artifacts

Artifacts only in this release. Killing is hard. (Last months fotf reply). They will fight if there's things to fight though.
Read this interview about what's planned for the next few releases:

http://www.pcgamer.com/dwarf-fortress-creator-tarn-adams-talks-about-simulating-the-most-complex-magic-system-ever/

[LordBaal]

Straight the Toad's mouth:

Wonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare. If not then I suppose the plan is having them filled with catapults and ballistas? Also, does the plan of adding boats includes making them in fort mode/being captain in adventurer mode? Will boats mean we could have river docks on fortress mode to trade greater quantities of merchandise?

Will you be implementing some sort of port that can be built in fortress mode? That would make ocean embark more interesting and also being able to build ships/wagons to send to trade with other cities?

I don't have a hard line on ship cannons really.  I'm not sure what we'll end up with.  That would lead to cannons on land, though, and that starts to move away from where I want vanilla to be.  It's hard to say what the first boat release would have, but we're certainly aiming for adventure mode captains.  I think it would be cool to have ships coming in vaguely like the wagons do, yeah, and we were hoping to get to it.  Underground lakes too, once we do the deep dwarf trade stuff -- that might be more dwarfy than a cliff-less ocean fort or one on a navigable river, but we'd try to support as many embarks as we can (and it should happen naturally if boats are on those waters).  Building boats at the fortress is a bit more complex and is the probably the sort of thing that would fall victim to a time shortage on the first pass, but we'll see how it all blends in with moving fortress pieces and all that.

Well, he is saying here that the concepts are inseparable.

Look, you can bend the words all the way you want, fact is Toady doesn't like the idea of firearms on the vanilla game, period, said by himself. Doesn't matter if they make the 1400 cut off. There's stuff he's simply not into.

What is important is the game to the have the ability of being modable into using firearms with all the details pertinent to it (slow reload time, more complicated logistics behind them), which eventually will be.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Straight the Toad's mouth:

Wonder if Toady has ever thought about having cannons at least in naval warfare. If not then I suppose the plan is having them filled with catapults and ballistas? Also, does the plan of adding boats includes making them in fort mode/being captain in adventurer mode? Will boats mean we could have river docks on fortress mode to trade greater quantities of merchandise?

Will you be implementing some sort of port that can be built in fortress mode? That would make ocean embark more interesting and also being able to build ships/wagons to send to trade with other cities?

I don't have a hard line on ship cannons really.  I'm not sure what we'll end up with.  That would lead to cannons on land, though, and that starts to move away from where I want vanilla to be.  It's hard to say what the first boat release would have, but we're certainly aiming for adventure mode captains.  I think it would be cool to have ships coming in vaguely like the wagons do, yeah, and we were hoping to get to it.  Underground lakes too, once we do the deep dwarf trade stuff -- that might be more dwarfy than a cliff-less ocean fort or one on a navigable river, but we'd try to support as many embarks as we can (and it should happen naturally if boats are on those waters).  Building boats at the fortress is a bit more complex and is the probably the sort of thing that would fall victim to a time shortage on the first pass, but we'll see how it all blends in with moving fortress pieces and all that.

Well, he is saying here that the concepts are inseparable.

Look, you can bend the words all the way you want, fact is Toady doesn't like the idea of firearms on the vanilla game, period, said by himself. Doesn't matter if they make the 1400 cut off. There's stuff he's simply not into.

What is important is the game to the have the ability of being modable into using firearms with all the details pertinent to it (slow reload time, more complicated logistics behind them), which eventually will be.

Did he like the idea of making the game 64 bit? I doubt that was particularly fun for him to code, but he still did it. That he doesn't have a lot of personal interest in a feature doesn't necessarily preclude adding it.

[Shonai_Dweller]

64 bit was a problem that needed solving. He solved it.

Gunpowder is developing the kind of excited glee that magic is giving him right now, ordering a bunch of books on the subject, browsing wikipedia to learn all about gunpowder, maybe going out with Zach to blow stuff up, just to see if how it's supposed to look (ok, maybe not that far) then spending a year to put it in, get it just right and be well pleased with what he's managed and enthuse to PC Gamer about dorfs and their new procedurally generated cannons that they develop over hundreds of years through trial and error.

As of last year, he wasn't at that point. Sure, one day he might be, great then we'll have gunpowder.

[Inarius]

Just an information : consider reading this interview : here about Magic.

It's really interesting and...hyping.

[Ninteen45]

Just an information : consider reading this interview : here about Magic.

It's really interesting and...hyping.

I really like that standalone Tarn is using to test stuff. I want it more than dwarf fortress, maybe.