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[Sheb]

What actions of the EU? I mean, it's not like Junker threatened to invade Gibraltar. They just let the Spanish put in a meaningless sentence in a brief (saying that the application of the deal over Gibraltar will need to be approved by both Spain and the UK. Which was anyway the case since it needs unanimous consent of EU member state).

[Silleh Boy]

I'm hoping that the current issue with Gibraltar isn't going to be used to polarise people against a 'common foe'. We don't need more enemies being made and more lasting emnity out of something that's already a mess - that feels like that may be a little much to hope for in the current political climate though.

[Azzuro]

I don't care whether the method used is boots on the ground or economic warfare, a threat to the sovereign rights of UK citizens - whether they live in the home counties or in the Falklands or Gibraltar - is deadly serious. And that's exactly what the comments of Tusk/the Spanish foreign minister are; a threat to try to hold us over a barrel and make us sacrifice the rights of the people of Gibraltar. I can tell Tusk and the rest now that we will never do that. For so long as the Gibraltrans choose to be a part of our nation, I support defending them with every method at our disposal. I'd happily go myself, for that matter.

And we're sabre-rattling? The EU leaders are making all the overtures they can to break up our country simply because we don't want to be in their ~50-year-old failing club any more. Their actions and words - particularly bringing Gibraltar into it - seem much more sabre-rattling to me than anything May or Michael Howard have said. The EU have as much as said they need to attempt to ruin us in order to frighten the other countries back into line, so that no one else dares to try to rip themselves away from Germany's teat.

Michael Howard's comments seem perfectly appropriate to me. The bureaucrats of the EU appear determined to make enemies out of us, and I think they could certainly stand to be reminded that if that's what they really, genuinely want, we'll fill that role as best we're able. And to take that lightly would be at their peril, given our track record.

Whoa, calm down there buddy. According to the news, Spain isn't even asking for control of Gibraltar, they're just asking for a veto over the EU agreements regarding Gibraltar which all require unanimity, so there's basically zero change apart from the EU acknowledging Gibraltar as an issue important to Spain. The border will become a lot harder to cross regardless, as the UK leaves the common market, so the EU isn't even playing hardball here, it's just reverting to the situation pre-EEC.

[da_nang]

I'm hoping that the current issue with Gibraltar isn't going to be used to polarise people against a 'common foe'. We don't need more enemies being made and more lasting emnity out of something that's already a mess - that feels like that may be a little much to hope for in the current political climate though.

The whole Gibraltar War hysteria is ridiculous and blown out to galactic proportions. It reminds me of "War is unforeseeable". I mean, how else was the guy supposed to answer the question? Tell them the UK won't defend its territories? Say nothing?

It's the media on both sides trying to generate clicks through ridiculous spin on obvious, unavoidable truths; don't pay attention to it.

[Frumple]

It... would have been incredibly easy to respond without, y'know, bringing up military action. Seriously, the question was if the guy was worried about gibraltar seeking independence in response to england's choices, and his response was a not at all oblique statement about having the resolve to go so far as to wage war on a spanish speaking nation. All of it in context of possible reactions from the UK towards the EU negotiations and the rest of the UK seeking independence because of them. There wasn't even the intimation there was any territory to defend, except possibly from england itself.

It would indeed have been ridiculous if the leave camp had actually done the sane thing and questioned what the hell he was going on about instead of setting their position firmly on top of the threat, but that ain't what happened. Which is why so much attention has come down on it.

[Sergarr]

The people of Gibraltar will surely change their mind on the question of being within Britain, after the inevitable common market Brexit will make their lives much, much worse- after all, 96% of them voted Remain. If not, then oh well, they'll serve as yet another living demonstrator of why betraying and backstabbing EU is a bad idea.

[TD1]

"Betraying"
"Backstabbing"

Strong, emotive language, that - if nothing else.

[Sergarr]

We're talking about a nation which has joined EU with a whole load of "special exceptions", circumventing normal EU rules, like, for example, having a non-Euro currency, or having a right to veto any decision that the UK didn't like, which they used quite extensively. And after all of that, they leave, since apparently, the perfidious Albion has decided that it could extract more riches outside of EU rather than within.

The EU has done so much for them... well, no longer. The Welsh and English can cry as much as they want about how they want to eat their cake and have it, too, with their inane demands to remain in the common market while also having sovereign immigration control and trade deal making, but they'll find out that they're no longer the "special exception", and thus will not get what they want.

[TD1]

To use the divorce metaphor, you're the wife's friend. "He betrayed her, he backstabbed her! She did so much for him! Cooked his dinner, quit smoking!"

When, in reality, it simply wasn't working any more. He didn't feel the relationship was right, even if he did appreciate the concessions. There was no emotive backstabbing. No betrayal. Just a parting of ways.

I mean, you should know better than to apply such emotional terms to politics, especially on such a large scale.

[Sergarr]

I disagree with you.

[TD1]

Really? 'Cause I hadn't picked up on that

[Sergarr]

Just had to make sure.

[Starver]

(@ the divorce metaphor) "He" wasn't actually that sure he wanted to divorce.  Half of him thought he wanted to, half of him did not, half of him couldn't decide. (And a further half of him didn't even get a say.)

[TD1]

Well, that's besides the point of my previous argument.

Plus, I'm fairly certain there's a few too many halves in there.

[Frumple]

... there definitely was a great deal of backstabbing, though, most of it very much emotional. A very significant amount of the reporting in the UK on brussels and the EU over the last long while have not exactly been penned or collected in the best of faith, to farcically understate things. Much of the UK body political was putting a fair chunk of effort into actively undermining the relationship. In your divorce metaphor the husband would have been rather emotionally abusive, heh. Not physically, but considering now that the divorce procedures are starting violence is being hinted at rather baldfacedly, well...