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Author Topic: Brexit! Conversation Continued  (Read 193307 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1335 on: March 22, 2017, 10:41:42 am »

Finally it happens. Well, I'm not gonna say it's happening till it's happening. As fart as I'm concerned knowing our luck right before article 50 is declared a comet will strike Britain and we'll sink beneath the waves Atlantis style, a single boquet of fish and chips remaining above the waves clutched in a scaly hand before disappearing, leaving the continentals to wonder if we had ever existed to begin with

TD1

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1336 on: March 22, 2017, 10:59:11 am »

I think you're mistaking that for what most people think will happen after Article 50.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1337 on: March 22, 2017, 11:22:39 am »

I think you're mistaking that for what most people think will happen after Article 50.
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WHY DIDN'T YOU THINK OF THE ECONOMY?

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1338 on: March 22, 2017, 11:58:20 am »

Sacrifice a heart to ensure a good Brexit deal!
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TempAcc

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1339 on: March 22, 2017, 12:15:22 pm »

Sacrifice kebab to appease nibiru.

Wait..
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Starver

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1340 on: March 22, 2017, 12:16:06 pm »

Brexit is very like Lucozade Zero.  I have yet to find anyone who can reconcile the competing advantages and the disadvantages of it in an overall beneficial manner, no matter what they're trying to achieve with it.

(Actually, I'm being disingenuous. LZ is probably aimed at avoiding the "sugar tax", so I can understand it at least from the corporate point-of-view... But, it does sort of defeat the entire branding...)
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TD1

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1341 on: March 22, 2017, 12:29:12 pm »

For Remainers, the focus is European Unity and being stronger together, as well as commercial arguments. For Leavers, it is identity, stronger borders, and a less Eurocentric world view. Also with commercial arguments.

Whether or not the advantages and disadvantages can be reconciled depends entirely on what you feel to be beneficial.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1342 on: March 22, 2017, 07:02:05 pm »

For Remainers, the focus is European Unity and being stronger together, as well as commercial arguments. For Leavers, it is identity, stronger borders, and a less Eurocentric world view. Also with commercial arguments.
Whether or not the advantages and disadvantages can be reconciled depends entirely on what you feel to be beneficial.
I imagine the commercial arguments will be different for Leavers and Remainers because they'll be operating on different levels of capital. For wealthier Remainers whose portfolios will be damaged by political instability the financial case for Remain is obvious, whereas for Leavers who are too poor they don't really give a shit about how much money richer people make on speculating with currency or futures when they themselves, have no future whether or not the EU lives or dies. Thus one side is complaining that it will be harder to hire Slovenian maids whilst another is complaining they can't afford to send their kids to school, but actually in 2017 it's progressive to say that the destitute and poor are mental invalids who shouldn't be allowed to vote

Quote
Only an hour earlier, I had been in Manchester at a graduate recruitment fair, where nine out of 10 of our interviewees were supporting remain, and some voices spoke about leave voters with a cold superiority. “In the end, this is the 21st century,” said one twentysomething. “Get with it.” Not for the first time, the atmosphere around the referendum had the sulphurous whiff not just of inequality, but a kind of misshapen class war.
Current year smug will always kill itself

Basically shit's fucked and it will take decades to fix this shit. Saying the country is divided between Leave and Remain is probably not true, the divides are probably more numerous and deeper than politics
Seriously this guardian article is pretty dank, though you don't need a journalism degree to see shit's fucked and politicians all coming from one school that costs more than the national family average income don't exactly have a good grasp on reality

Starver

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1343 on: March 22, 2017, 07:20:49 pm »

I imagine the commercial arguments will be different for Leavers and Remainers because they'll be operating on different levels of capital. For wealthier Remainers whose portfolios will be damaged by political instability the financial case for Remain is obvious, whereas for Leavers who are too poor they don't really give a shit about how much money richer people make on speculating with currency or futures when they themselves, have no future whether or not the EU lives or dies.
I'm not that financially secure (currently worrying about my eventual pension thanks to some unnecessary messing about, and then there's those few dollars that I do really need to be in sterling, if I can get the right W-8-whatever forms submitted to the proper people: and that's before I possibly have to worry about financial collapses and supply-chain disruptions that send food prices skyrocketting) so I'm not in either of those opposing quadrants that you seem to have placed everybody in...

Maybe I'm an outlier, outside the line of best correlation, but just so you know that I'm more an ascetic by necessity than an affluent profligate.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1344 on: March 22, 2017, 07:44:19 pm »

I imagine the commercial arguments will be different for Leavers and Remainers because they'll be operating on different levels of capital. For wealthier Remainers whose portfolios will be damaged by political instability the financial case for Remain is obvious, whereas for Leavers who are too poor they don't really give a shit about how much money richer people make on speculating with currency or futures when they themselves, have no future whether or not the EU lives or dies.
I'm not that financially secure (currently worrying about my eventual pension thanks to some unnecessary messing about, and then there's those few dollars that I do really need to be in sterling, if I can get the right W-8-whatever forms submitted to the proper people: and that's before I possibly have to worry about financial collapses and supply-chain disruptions that send food prices skyrocketting) so I'm not in either of those opposing quadrants that you seem to have placed everybody in...

Maybe I'm an outlier, outside the line of best correlation, but just so you know that I'm more an ascetic by necessity than an affluent profligate.

You have to be careful when engaging in discourse with LW, because while he's very good at seeing to the root of problems, and cutting through the waffle politicians like to try and blind people with, he also loves the soundbite (and to portray bremainers as the upperclass aristos exclusively).

I mean my sig is like, 4/5ths LW quotes even though I strongly disagree with him for a reason.
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TD1

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1345 on: March 22, 2017, 07:47:46 pm »

I don't think many people would doubt that the rich had a tendency to vote one way, the poor another.

The basic argument for this that my student-minded well off friends have proposed is that the poor were too ignorant and didn't know what was going on, or they would have voted remain.

If that doesn't indicate class divide and age divide, I don't know what does. There's a reason that social media, domain of the meme and the young, is so fervently remain.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1346 on: March 23, 2017, 09:49:43 am »

I'm not that financially secure (currently worrying about my eventual pension thanks to some unnecessary messing about, and then there's those few dollars that I do really need to be in sterling, if I can get the right W-8-whatever forms submitted to the proper people: and that's before I possibly have to worry about financial collapses and supply-chain disruptions that send food prices skyrocketting) so I'm not in either of those opposing quadrants that you seem to have placed everybody in...
Maybe I'm an outlier, outside the line of best correlation, but just so you know that I'm more an ascetic by necessity than an affluent profligate.
I don't judge peoples backgrounds based on their views, one thing I've found is that not only is it better to listen to arguments and not people, but often people are never showing their true backgrounds - in London I've always known it to be that the poor try to seem rich, the rich try to seem criminal, the middle try to seem upper etc.
Appearances are deceiving and then you also got to factor in everyone has their own problems and advantages they're likely to never speak in public. No point to go digging when there's billions of people with such complicated histories

You have to be careful when engaging in discourse with LW, because while he's very good at seeing to the root of problems, and cutting through the waffle politicians like to try and blind people with, he also loves the soundbite (and to portray bremainers as the upperclass aristos exclusively).
I mean my sig is like, 4/5ths LW quotes even though I strongly disagree with him for a reason.
Ahaha I have to thank you for overselling my qualities, I don't see anything they're not seeing, doesn't exactly take a sage to see and say "things suck." Also in my defence, I also love the wall of text, it's just the soundbite is much more memorable

I don't think many people would doubt that the rich had a tendency to vote one way, the poor another. The basic argument for this that my student-minded well off friends have proposed is that the poor were too ignorant and didn't know what was going on, or they would have voted remain.
If that doesn't indicate class divide and age divide, I don't know what does. There's a reason that social media, domain of the meme and the young, is so fervently remain.
Social media and Unis, but no memes.
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He who controls memes controls the world
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So basically it's deeper than class. Loadsa Elites are more than happy to help the destitute abroad, at home, unless they're not maximized diversity points. There's a social stigma on it all

martinuzz

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1347 on: March 23, 2017, 10:53:21 am »

Sacrifice kebab to appease nibiru.

Wait..
Sacrifice Gibraltar for a slightly better trade deal
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TD1

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1348 on: March 23, 2017, 10:59:19 am »

Oh! Oh! Give the Falklands to the Argentinians!
((Strapped to a suicide vest))
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Brexit! Conversation Continued
« Reply #1349 on: March 23, 2017, 12:50:43 pm »

snip

There's a difference between describing the wealthy as anti-Brexit and describing No voters in general as wealthy.

The rich were a tiny minority of No votes, and as far as I can tell, most No voters are in the same income ranges as most Yes voters. So it's misleading to make it out like Yes voters are interested in protecting their jobs while No voters are interested in protecting their investments.
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