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[smjjames]

Also, we can't do anything about the past (as much as people like to strawman, "if X's parent's hadn't immigrated here, then Y wouldn't happen" (it'd just be someone else who ends up doing it)), but we can do something about the right now.

I'll just respond to this with my response to when you said this exact thing the last time.

How can you talk about fallacies with a straight face when you are making the argument that if this man would not have lived in the UK some other, completely unknowable, person, through completely unknowable means, would have just "done it instead". This is some shitty arse predeterminist logic you've got there. That kind of nonsense appeal-to-alternative-universes reasoning works great for all kinds of things. "If we had prevented him from owning a gun, somebody else would have accidently shot his kid while playing with it!" "If we hadn't built this pipeline without giving a damn about environmental concerns causing the destruction of this Indian holy ground and leaks into the drinking water, someosomeone else would have!" "If we hadn't released all these greenhouse gases and polluted the atmosphere, someone else just would have! Who? I dont know! Where? I don't know! Why? I don't know! When? I don't know! I don't know.That's the beauty of it, see, I don't have to know. I just have to say it would have happened anyway!"

I missed that response last time, honest, and I see your point.

Apparently some terrorists have decided to kill 26 people each day in London until they deal with air pollution:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/15/nearly-9500-people-die-each-year-in-london-because-of-air-pollution-study

(Is this mic on? Can we solve other problems by pretending terrorists did it and spending billions accordingly?)

But seriously, they're doing it for the attention; they aren't going to kill us all, they won't even be more deadly or disruptive than the rest of everyday life. Terrorism only feeds on stupid overreactions, so quit feeding it and move on with life. The only thing that will endanger you are the idiots who have decided to go along with their fear game, pretending they are enemies of the terrorists in a show of pointless bravado that simply feeds a cycle of hatred.

Please don't pretend that there is any kind of "us" in relation to terrorism in Europe that includes upperclass Americans in Texas.

The article is about pollution killing people in London, not some group claiming 26 people will die a day until air pollution is fixed.

And not sure where upperclass Americans in/from Texas come into this, unless maybe you mean George W. Bush?

[Wolfhunter107]

By the looks of it, he's trying to shut the conversation down on the basis that you aren't European.

[scriver]

It describes alway.

And the article is irrelevant, alway's point is that we shouldn't care that people are actively attacking and murdering us because we also damage ourselves through passive means.

By the looks of it, he's trying to shut the conversation down on the basis that you aren't European.

To be exact, I am trying to criticise alway's use of "us" applied to an argument that Brits shouldn't care about Brits being murdered (because "they won't kill all of us") when he is neither a Brit nor in the same boat as Europeans in general.

[Leafsnail]

I think it's safe to say that they formed their ideology because of a large Muslim peer group throughout their life toting violent tenets. They may as well not have been converts in that regard. It's a cultural and religious mix quite potent when concentrated. I don't know how many rural terrorists there are, but I'd assume it's so insignificant a number to be practically zero.

You seem to be making assumptions and speculating rather than making informed arguments. The Westminster attacker grew up in Rye and Tunbridge Wells, and only converted to Islam after a string of violent crimes.

[Lagslayer]

How come the converts always seem to be violent?

[ChairmanPoo]

Converts are always the most fanatical. They tend to feel they have something to prove

[redwallzyl]

How come the converts always seem to be violent?

Because their the only ones you hear about.

[Sheb]

How come the converts always seem to be violent?

Because "Bob converts to Islam, still local bowling champion" makes for boring headlines.


Edit: If the question is "why do they seem to be more likely than born muslims to get recruited by ISIS", well, it's important to note that most of the Muslims that are recruited tends to be relatively unreligious and not intergrated in religious lives (Mosques, muslims charities, etc). Jut like your gut bacteria protect you from diarrea by taking up the space, religious life protect you from Takfiri. Converts for rather obvious reasons lack this to a greater degree than born muslims.

[Leafsnail]

In those cases I think it's more that they converted because the violent ideology of Islamist extremism appealed to them.

[smjjames]

In what is definetly going to be compared to America, British police are saying that they fired an unprecedented 50 shots to down three attackers. Come on, 50? I'm not impressed, there are cases of officers firing more than twice that to down one person in the US.

[wierd]

While likely more stereotype than truth, British police have a reputation of superior integrity and restraint compared to their US counterparts. For many years, they refused to carry firearms at all, I understand.

[smjjames]

European police are generally more restrained compared to their US counterparts, that's certainly true.

[scriver]

The end goal is not terrorising people. Terrorising people is the goal of the method.

[wierd]

The end goal of terrorism is to effect a societal change.

In that respect, Terrorism has been profoundly effective in the first half of this century. I am deeply disturbed to have borne witness to my own country going stark raving mad (or perhaps, just deeper into insanity?) since september 11. I made the comment then, and I will say it again now-- going bonkers over terrorism is how the terrorists win.

[smjjames]

There's a little bit of information out from one of the neighbors in the apartment complex that one of the suspects lived in (don't know if all of them lived in the same complex). It seems that one of them may be Pakistani (I don't recall Pakistan being on the banned countries list) and two years ago, was converting or trying to convert kids in the park during Ramadan, plus giving money and sweets to them either in the park or when he came around to their houses, which... comes off as a bit odd and maybe creepy.

The police have acknowledged the claims, but haven't made any comments on it. They've definetly got the information locked down this time.