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[ChairmanPoo]

*shrug*  Depending on how the pieces fall down, the Irish might profit a lot from acting as middleman between the EU and the UK.

[TD1]

Law differences (hello, abortion), possible (though obviously not certain) discrimination - ie, only those who speak Irish are allowed to teach in Ireland (certainly at primary level, not sure about higher) - and also political. 15% of Catholics reportedly wanted to leave the EU compared to 60% Protestants.

There is also, and I can't stress this enough, the cultural divide mentioned previously. "Why doesn't England/Scotland/Wales enter a union with ROI?" can fairly succinctly be answered by "they don't want to, even were there benefits - they are not Irish." Northern Ireland, as well as this cultural divide, has what Grim called "friction left over from the Troubles," which is an understatement. Protestant families see a past stained in blood, where the union was challenged and persevered. It is unlikely that this will casually be given up, no matter the reward. From personal experience, they are unionists, and loyalists, in that in many cases there is loyalty to the union, something perhaps not seen so often in contemporary politics. When you add that to the blood toll (something very personal, linked to local places where family friends died) it adds to a large sentiment of "I'm British. I am different from those in the Republic. I would not be represented properly. I do not want their institutions, or their religion. My friends/family died in this vein - I will vote in it."


Funnily enough, a "reunification" would incidentally see the Republic joining the UK again, given that theirs is the separatist state

[Grim Portent]

Annoyingly elements of the inter-faith/cultural friction from Ireland are also found here in Scotland, mostly in the lowlands where a lot of Irish immigrants settled in the past, and also in areas where soldiers called up to fight Irish rebellions came from and returned to. It was never as strong here fortunately, and even more fortunately it's a dying thing more common among the older generations.

I do find it annoying that Sinn Feinn refuse to take their seats in parliament btw. I get that it's how they protest what they view as the illegitimacy of the monarchy by refusing to swear allegiance to it, which is a requirement to take their seats, but damn it guys can't you bury it long enough to participate. If you have to just open every speech you give in the House of Commons with an insult to the monarch, the failure to attend hurts the process.

[Helgoland]

If they don't want that process, then that's just goal-oriented behaviour, isn't it?

[Neonivek]

I get that it's how they protest what they view as the illegitimacy of the monarchy by refusing to swear allegiance to it, which is a requirement to take their seats, but damn it guys can't you bury it long enough to participate

Wait... the UK is STILL flouting that law?

Hasn't anyone learned anything from the Puritans? SERIOUSLY WTF!

And it isn't so much a protest as it is... kind of absolutely wrong for them to swear allegiance to it... and wrong for it to be a requirement.

Edit: Ehh, Maybe it isn't a UK law... I wouldn't think the UK would keep that law around after the whole embarrassment it lead to... requiring a group of deinstitutionalized people who lay a smack down and go "Well if you are going to be ineffectual nutwits, I guess we will have to do everything ourselves".

But that is a rant for history... and once again! Probably not still a UK law! Impossible!

[Grim Portent]

One of the requirements to sit in parliament is to swear or affirm (one is religious and invokes god, the other is not) an oath of loyalty to the reigning monarch. Sinn Feinn refuse to as staunch Republicans and therefore cannot take their seats even if they want to, though I expect most of them wouldn't even if they could because some also view the parliament itself as not legitimate.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/swearingin/

It does not apply to the N. Irish Assembly, which they do participate in.

I am not sure if it applies to the other devolved legislatures or not, as N. Ireland is a special case in a lot of ways.

[Neonivek]

Ohhh... so... it is... every bit as bad as I thought it was.

That is... surprising and so rant worthy... and worthy of every bit of scorn I could ever muster against it.

That I shall skip that rant and say

Lay off people who refuse to do it. All you are doing is "Stop hitting yourself!" as you smack them with their own limbs. Sure they refuse to do it, but you are creating the system where they NEED to refuse to do it. You created a problem and are bashing them for the problem you created.

As for why skip the rant. It is SO scathing, it would immediately draw ire.

[Wolfhunter107]

If you refuse to do what is required of you as an elected representative, than you shouldn't run for office in the first place.

[Neonivek]

If you refuse to do what is required of you as an elected representative, than you shouldn't run for office in the first place.

So, allegiance and affirmation of the Queen... helps elected representatives?

[Grim Portent]

MPs cannot be fired under most circumstances and refusal to sit in parliament is strangely not one of them, and while they cannot vote when they refuse to take their seats the Sinn Feinn MPs do participate with the system in other ways, they basically just don't debate or vote in parliament, but they still do some basic administrative stuff involving their constituencies and address their constituents issues where possible. A lot of an MPs job is done away from parliament.

Since they're an Independence party all the Westminster parties would refuse to form coalitions with them anyway. They'd be reliant on some kind of fluke where Plaid Cymru and the SNP got all the Welsh and Scottish seats and the GPEW (English/Welsh Greens) got a majority in England in order to have parties that actually want to form a coalition with them.

If you refuse to do what is required of you as an elected representative, than you shouldn't run for office in the first place.

It is a protest by them and their constituents against the monarchy, and they are voted for by people who are fully aware of that, it is in fact what they get elected to do.

[Neonivek]

Not to mention... They are right. What is the Monarchy to the UK at this point?

Which is honestly the weirdest part about this. It isn't like anyone who runs for government even believes they are running by the grace of the monarchy (except I guess hallow words)

So why is this still a law? You don't even have to swear on a holy bible in court... But you have the swear allegiance to the Crown. Not the government... the crown... and there is a difference.

[redwallzyl]

I'm just going to put down for posterity that brexit was foolish and stupid and everyone will regret it in the future. I call full i told you so rights when such a time comes.

[Starver]

MPs cannot be fired under most circumstances

Or resign. Those who wish to resign (or otherwise trigger a by-election, for them to actually contest) must usually 'get fired' by invoking one or other of a pair of Get Out Of Parliament Free holdovers rules.

(I was reading about this a couple of weeks ago, for unrelated reasons. But see 17th Dec '85 on either linked-onward list page, for close relevance.)


ETA: And I'm with Redwallzyl.  It'll probably weaken Europe (some people here won't mind that) but also the UK (some people round here won't care about that, and maybe the same ones).  Still, when you're not quite happy with how the board game is going, swiping the whole thing off of the table is always an option to some.

[hector13]

I'm just going to put down for posterity that brexit was foolish and stupid and everyone will regret it in the future. I call full i told you so rights when such a time comes.

I think Scotland gets that right first :p and Northern Ireland I s'pose.

+1 anyway.

[TD1]

ETA: And I'm with Redwallzyl.  It'll probably weaken Europe (some people here won't mind that) but also the UK (some people round here won't care about that, and maybe the same ones).  Still, when you're not quite happy with how the board game is going, swiping the whole thing off of the table is always an option to some.

By "some," I think you mean the majority, lol.