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Use the same color naming conventions as the cloth.

5 (50%)

Use gem names.

5 (50%)

Other (respond in thread)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 10

[Halnoth]

You cant, thats hardcoded. You can call them "beanbag chair" or "body bag coffin", but thats about it.

Thanks, I figured as much. I tried using the product token tag from the adventure mode reactions but that did nothing. It would be nice if Toady kicked those out to the RAWs.

[Halnoth]

Updated main post!

Updated the poll as well for which features you would like to see. Also, please post if you think there are any balancing issues, production chain annoyances, or bugs.

 v1.2

Glue crop changed from toadstool to tower cap stalks.

New crop added: Tower Cap Stalks

 New cloth items and furniture added;

 armor stand
 weapon rack
 hatch cover
 cabinet
 statue
 bookcase
 backpack
 quiver
 splint
 book binding
 toy: doll
 shield

 Glass Weapons added to the glassmaker work shop. The material is called "glass" and is comparable to steel. All weapons normally made in dwarf mode are available. Additionally glass bolts can be made in stacks of 100.

 To make glass weapons the reaction is as follows;
 1 log + 1 laminated cloth + glue + sand = glass weapon of your choosing

 Two new reactions for raw materials. The reactions are included in the glass reactions file so if you don't install the glass weapons the reactions below will not be present.

 1. Make tower cap logs

 3 tower cap stalks + glue = 1 tower cap log; the reaction is done at the screw press.

 2. Grind blocks to sand

 1 rock block + empty bag = 1 bag of sand; the reaction is done at a quern or millstone.

 4 hostile civs

 1. Minotaur
 2. Ogre
 3. Drow (really just elves but with cloth armor and glass weapons)
 4. Duegar (really just dwarves)

 All civs worship death gods to increase the amount of towers available. Drow and Duegar creatures were added to tell civs apart while embarking. Drow are mortal to increase necromancers.

[FantasticDorf]

I wont lie, personally im highly speculative as to why the additional races are here in the first place in a cloth centric mod. That's my only real 'harsh' criticism.

Ok straight to questions/observations

> Tower caps are already a [tree] type, what exactly are tower cap stalks? (I've never personally seen fruit on a mushroom though i've heard its possible)

> Neat, new items, big bunch of them too covering the main categories

> Even though it doesn't have its own raws, there are some pointers for you on material definition about glass items imparticular on the DF wiki material definition page (and this post i've tagged here), potentially you could make your own subtype of glass with the properties you want and then tweak the reaction (even adding ITEMS_WEAPONS will allow future usual use of that material for those who can access the glassworks/host workshop/custom furnace) to your liking to compensate or meaningfully trivalise the process so its not infinite.

> Not sure on the cheat reaction making wood logs out of glue (though its reasonably thought out and reasonable i guess) and infinite sand out of stone, both of those are renewably abusable (as per obsidian casting and obviously farming the glue & stalks for the wood)

Still its very pleasing to see this mod is still in ever changing development, keep up the good work. 

[Halnoth]

I wont lie, personally im highly speculative as to why the additional races are here in the first place in a cloth centric mod. That's my only real 'harsh' criticism.

It is a cloth centric mod. However, I had created a major mod before and so am including some items from it. I usually include these civs in my own game to ramp up the amount of enemies to fight. This is why I am including them in this mod. They are just there for convenience. That is why they are in a separate folder. If you don't like them then I have made it easy to not copy them over.

> Tower caps are already a [tree] type, what exactly are tower cap stalks? (I've never personally seen fruit on a mushroom though i've heard its possible)

To be honest I was thinking of bamboo when I thought about the plant. However, I wanted it to be "dwarfy" and so tower cap stalks made sense to me. Just picture small tower cap trees.

> Neat, new items, big bunch of them too covering the main categories

Thank you

> Even though it doesn't have its own raws, there are some pointers for you on material definition about glass items imparticular on the DF wiki material definition page (and this post i've tagged here), potentially you could make your own subtype of glass with the properties you want and then tweak the reaction (even adding ITEMS_WEAPONS will allow future usual use of that material for those who can access the glassworks/host workshop/custom furnace) to your liking to compensate or meaningfully trivalise the process so its not infinite.

I went the route of making the glass a "metal" because I wasn't sure how the IS_GLASS token would function (since it is an internal token). Using IS_GEM seems like a clever way to make it into windows, but it would seem to me that if I just added ITEMS_WEAPONS to such a template it either would place weapon reactions in the jewelers shop or it just wouldn't work and I would end up with the same system. However, this idea is interesting and I will play around with it.

> Not sure on the cheat reaction making wood logs out of glue (though its reasonably thought out and reasonable i guess) and infinite sand out of stone, both of those are renewably abusable (as per obsidian casting and obviously farming the glue & stalks for the wood)

I wouldn't call them "cheat" reactions, since you aren't making something from nothing, and the something you are making is stuff that is near infinite in game already. While testing the mod on a sandless treeless badlands embark I still had to import stone to make blocks (I could have dug more but I try to limit my digging to cut down on fps death) and import wood because really unless you went over board with half a dozen 10x10 farm plots and a lot of your fortress farming you aren't going to get enough farmed materials to satisfy your need for thread and tower cap stalks that this mod demands. Each laminate cloth requires 6 thread and 1 unit of glue. Each glass weapon requires 3 tower cap stalks 6 thread and 3 units of glue plus 6 raw tower cap stalks if you farmed all the mats. Just to outfit one soldier that's 55 thread alone. Overall that's a lot of dwarf power to run your cloth industry. I had 4 7x7 plots (1 for food crops, 1 for tower cap stalks, and 2 for thread) with 10 farm dwarves and it took me 5 in game years before I had a surplus of mats and didn't have to import stuff. Granted I made nearly everything in my fortress from cloth.

The purpose of the wood reaction is to allow someone to embark without trees at the site in order to cut down on fps death. Do you know how much wood you get from a typical forest embark? thousands. The last forest embark I did I ended up with 8000 logs and when the trees regrow and drop their leaves in the fall your fps plummets. Growing trees really is no different than the current state of wood as a resource. Even caverns give you an incredible amount of wood, but again if you breach the caverns you get hit with lag, hard.

As to the sand, it is either infinite if you have it on your map or it is exceedingly rare if you don't. I plan to expand the glass industry a bit later and what is the point of expanding the glass industry if you might not embark where you can use it? and without modding the vanilla raws it is a little difficult to limit the sand making reaction to just silicate stones like Quartzite. If you wanted to set up an obsidian farm to farm rock blocks for sand then that is definitely way more work than the vanilla system of infinite sand from one tile.

To be honest after testing it on a 10 year fort, the mod doesn't seem any more or less hard than vanilla (maybe more if you used the new civs). The major difference is that I ended that 10 years with 100 fps instead of 30.

Still its very pleasing to see this mod is still in ever changing development, keep up the good work. 

Thanks

[Halnoth]

Not quite done with the next update but I have 7 different colored carpets, tiles, and padded leather. Added padded leather. I am currently working on a new furniture system to make more detailed furniture. When I am done testing I will update. Here is a preview.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Halnoth]

Updated main post! Poll updated!

v1.3

 Reworked making the cloth system a bit. Now all cloth types require dye.

 7 colors of each cloth; cream, cobalt, maroon, gold, charcoal, dark green, teal. 3 cloth types: quilted, padded leather, and laminate.

 Each colored cloth can be made into carpets, rugs, and tiles of the appropriate color.

 4 new crops; lichen (gold dye), puffball (cream dye), dusk fern (charcoal dye), and dawn fern (cobalt dye).

 Specific cloth material can be detailed from the manager for all cloth furniture and items, so instead of relying on stockpile links you can simply indicate what cloth you want to use through the manager or by hitting "d" on the task in the workshop.

 All dyes are edible and are called "powder" this was done so that you will have an accurate count of available materials for manager work order conditions.

 Ability to create fancy furniture complete with pillows, cushions, blankets, encrusted images, embroidery, frames, etc. Making fancy furniture requires different materials depending on the furniture. They all require a piece of cloth, some thread, and a log. Some of them require a cut gem (glass works). I posted an example previously.

 I added a lot this time so if there are any bugs let me know. As always, questions and comments are welcome. Enjoy!

[DoomOnion]

I've been reading the previous few posts, and as someone who does HEMA, I have the strong compelling urge to correct you here and there.
Cloth armor, by and large, were perfectly serviceable as battlefield armor. I wouldn't say it's -on par- with other types of metal armor. For example, a cloth gambeson has no hopes of competing against 14th century plate armor, and even against 12th century coat of plates the protective value is almost superficial. They certainly had their uses, but they weren't on par with metal armor.

Even the lightweight aspect of cloth armor is a modern myth. You *can* technically make a cloth armor as strong as steel armor, but no armor found on battle sites as archeological evidence has the correct thickness to withstand as much as steel armor. Why? Because it's heavy as hell. Steel in general has more protective value per weight than cloth armor. If anything, your cloth armor should be heavier than metal counterparts, if they are going to offer the same amount of protection.

[Halnoth]

I've been reading the previous few posts, and as someone who does HEMA, I have the strong compelling urge to correct you here and there.
Cloth armor, by and large, were perfectly serviceable as battlefield armor. I wouldn't say it's -on par- with other types of metal armor. For example, a cloth gambeson has no hopes of competing against 14th century plate armor, and even against 12th century coat of plates the protective value is almost superficial. They certainly had their uses, but they weren't on par with metal armor.

Even the lightweight aspect of cloth armor is a modern myth. You *can* technically make a cloth armor as strong as steel armor, but no armor found on battle sites as archeological evidence has the correct thickness to withstand as much as steel armor. Why? Because it's heavy as hell. Steel in general has more protective value per weight than cloth armor. If anything, your cloth armor should be heavier than metal counterparts, if they are going to offer the same amount of protection.

The names of the armor are European, but thats only so that the names are recognizable. I didn't want Aztec, Inca, Japanese, or Greek names simply because I wanted the player to be able to see the name and identify the item immediately. That said, none of the thought and research behind this mod really has to do with European cloth armor, like a gambeson. Really the cloth armor is modeled after Aztec/Incan armor with some Linothorax thrown in.

I posted some links earlier in the thread to support what I'm saying but some of the information comes from anthropology and material science text books. Here is a link to a video though that might help https://youtu.be/0ERSx1o8wwk

Coming as you do from a background in HEMA I completely understand your point of view. However, your corrections are wrong as they are refering to a different cloth technology than what I modeled my mod on. Europeans were very good at making hard rigid items, but they lagged behind the Americas and to a lesser extent Asia in terms of tension, at least during that time period.

Now all that said, I would absolutely tweek the material properties to be more accurate if the game functioned a little different. Right now the game does not do a good job of modeling all of the benefits of cloth armor so I had to adjust accordingly.

[Teneb]

Proposal: use the correct names instead?

[Halnoth]

Proposal: use the correct names instead?

Naw, I can't even pronounce some of the names. This for instance is a cloth armor shirt, ichcahuipilli. So, for my own sanity and for those that use the mod, I think I'll stick with the European style names.

[Halnoth]

I'm working on a new version but it is somewhat slow going because I am in the middle of a move (just bought a house). So far for the new version I have;

1. Made new creatures for minotaurs and ogres to stop visitors from being hostile on sight and destroying furniture.
2. Spiced up the enemy civs a little (still need a bit of work on that front but probably won't get to it this release).
3. Made it possible to make glass armor at the forge.

Planned but not done;
1. Fancy glass furniture.
2. Different types of glass.

In addition, after looking at the mix match thread by jecowa and conversing with him I want to make the download format as easy as possible to install using LNP and just in general. However, since I have several "optional" aspects of the mod that players may not want included in the main RAW list I've added a new pole to see what would be the easiest for you. Any of those options are easy for me to maintain but it is important to me that the mod is as easy as possible to install.

Some things on that front I will be adding regardless are an entity_default file with the mod tags pre installed and an installation readme. I will eventually include production chain information in the readme but probably not with this release.

I plan to have this new release out in a couple weeks but we shall see how the move goes.

So please vote and I'll use the information to create a, hopefully, easier installation experience.

[jecowa]

Will the Hostile Civs mod work okay without the Glass Weapons mod and the Cloth Armor mod?

[Halnoth]

Will the Hostile Civs mod work okay without the Glass Weapons mod and the Cloth Armor mod?

Hmm well they could if I give drow metal instead of glass and cloth. The other mods would be addons if you will. Even the glass reactions use the new cloth as a reagent. So, basically, you couldn't use them without the cloth portion (though like I said I could set it up so the enemy civs would be fine).

If I made them seperate downloads, then I would be very clear in the description that you need the main mod as well.

[jecowa]

If the other two are dependent on the cloth armor now, then it would probably be best to keep it like it is, imo.

Do I have to take the text files out of the "Glass Weapons" and "new enemy civs" folders in order to use those mods?

[Halnoth]

If the other two are dependent on the cloth armor now, then it would probably be best to keep it like it is, imo.

Do I have to take the text files out of the "Glass Weapons" and "new enemy civs" folders in order to use those mods?

You know what? I don't actually know for sure. I'll test it right now to see if DF can read the RAWs in those folders as is. I've just been copying them from the folder to the RAW folder. However, the gaits text files in vanilla work fine in a folder so I don't see how this would be different. That's a handy piece of knowledge to have either way.