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What you gonna do, brave investigators!?

Look for Dafeng
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(option for non-playas so they can see votes too ;v)

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Author Topic: Fire Emblem on Forums 6 (FEF6), OOC Thread! DED  (Read 87869 times)

Haspen

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Valid points, those :v

But yeh, with FEF6 I hope to shake both the playerbase a bit (by introducing fresh people and thus, fresh ideas) and tactics (by downgrading the difficulty, newbies being part reason there).

Unfortunately, in FEF, cooperation+tactics are more important than individualism :P
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Twinwolf

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Really, the planning thing is unavoidable not only because of the normal difficulty but because of the genre of the game. It's a turn based *tactics* game.
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Haspen

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With roleplay being a cherry on top of cake rather half the cake ;v
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GiglameshDespair

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Getting your character killed is fine. Getting others isn't. As a healer, you need to keep other people alive. For almost every other class, there's a lot more wiggle room in who they attack, etc, but a healer needs to be on the ball to stop deaths.

With plans... discuss 'em. That's... kinda what people are wanting and doing already. Hell, it's not that free will is trampled beneath a few veterans' feet - we want more people to discuss plans and chime in. I've actively tried to get more people to involve themselves with it.

Ultimately, though, it is a tactics game. The party needs to work as a group or fail.
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Blade Master Model 42

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No worries, I both remember and still care.

Responses to your points are in order. Normally I'd quote for ease of reading, but I'm  phone posting.

1. Usually, those who are planning are willing to accommodate certain actions within reason. All it takes is communication.

I'll address the perceived us vs haspen mentality further down.

2. I don't buy this, personally. Chapter 11x of FEF1 was micromanaged action to action in some places because shit got crazy, but there was still a lot of strong roleplay. I feel like planning is only going to limit roleplay if you let it.

3. I suppose this boils down to difference of opinion.

4. There will be times where 'doing  your own thing' will be both disruptive and foolish, because sometimes maps are insanely difficult for one reason or another. Best to come to terms with that now. I agree that forcing micromanagement to simply evade a wipe isn't good game design, but an important  thing to keep in mind is that conditions are persistent from turn to turn. Might it not be disastrous to open a choke point for a turn? Well maybe. But will it make things harder down the line? Assuming the map isn't already nearly over, most likely.

Each turn informs the next, and if you want to see how a manageable situation can turn into a serious nail biter with just a couple careless moves, I suggest you check out the Snow Village chapter of FEF1.

I'm not trying to scare or bully anyone into never doing anything without a plan. I would just prefer if those individualist actions were informed. And if you don't like the move you've been given in someone else's plan, please discuss that with the planner. All of us are trying to have fun here.

5. Well, it certainly seemed like you were taking a hard line stance against planning, which left me a little surprised when you began contributing to planning soon after. Devil's Advocate is all well and good, but there is a way to do that. Your wording suggested something other than what you are now stating was your intent. So I suggest you keep an eye on that, to avoid causing unintended  offense. I know I've  done it before, and it can lead to unfortunate  places.

And as stated before, communicating with the people who step up to plan is welcome.

6. Pretty much the same points I made about wording last point apply here too.

7. I don't know that I believe this to be the case. Yes, we didn't plan as much when FEF first came on the scene, and it was a bit easier in some respects then, but I'd chalk that up to early installment weirdness. The back half of FEF1 had a lot of those planning heavy maps, and it has more or less become the norm, in part, because the format calls for careful thought at the first sign of challenge. Also I'd say that FEF3 or FEF6 are more emblematic of 'typical FEF' than FEF5, which has had several flee the map objectives, which have high level enemies and high pressure situations by necessity, and these are where plans become most important and pronounced.

When it comes down to it, the 'war' between GMs and players is a fantasy. As much as Haspen likes to kid around and occasionally enjoy our misery, his goal, and the goal of other GMs, is not adversarial. It is not to kill us all. If that was the case, no PC would ever make it to the end of the game. So at worst, a GM may accidentally make the map too difficult in an attempt to keep things tense and challenging. Interpreting these as malicious gestures can be hurtful to both parties, so be careful with that.

8. Yeah, dialogue with GMs is important,  because we do occasionally make mistakes in map design, considering that map design is not an exact science. I would say that in specific terms, speaking about particular games should probably be kept to their respective OOCs.

Tiruin

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I don't know whether anyone still remembers or cares about this, but I want to at least try to clarify my position on the plans-vs-improv issue. I've grouped your quoted responses by their primary argument or question, as I understand it.

Why ever not keep people standing?
  • Are we going to be nice little automatons, making sure that no-one ever dies or even gets KO'ed if we can help it?
Why would we ever not want the bolded part?

making sure that no-one ever dies or even gets KO'ed if we can help it?
I don't know what being an automation has to do with it, but yes this is absolutely one of our top priorities.

Of course it's an important priority. What I'm saying is that it is not the only thing that matters. Players should be given leeway to "act their characters", too. A valorous knight should be allowed to make daring, somewhat reckless attacks, a cynical bandit should be allowed to put their own interests first, and so on. I don't know about you, but for me the game is about the interactions between characters and situations, not two blobs of grey goo (the Hatkittypenguin Masterbrain and the IRC Hivemind) systematically attempting to devour and assimilate each other.
I've...err, noticed that you've a tendency to lump people in general based on your impressions alone. Although that's more me taking single words literally. ._. Though beware of doing that, because it's not really going to come off well in tone or the receiving concept. I got lost because of the lack of specifics--like, yes these characters do act as themselves, however what's missing is when and where, basically the idea that this is context-bound. Yes you can withhold healing and let his timer count down, but that also does denote that when you DO heal them, they CANNOT act during the same turn because of being revived DURING that turn. While these do seem technical in a mechanical manner, these mechanics work as factors to represent how things work in the world our characters are in.
But that leeway was in how you also approached it--arguing in a rash tone (or that's how it came off by emotion when firstly discussed, all it takes is how you communicate).
We, as in the general idea of the playerbase, aren't forcing you to HEAL ONCE DOWNED. The response was based on the wording of the statement.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 11:56:46 am by Tiruin »
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Haspen

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Extra 12 hours for other peeps to post their sheets if they want to join.
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IamanElfCollaborator

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.....you know, I would've assumed the cursing and the " :P " would've made myself out to be joking around. I would ask that I wasn't quote-mined, especially since I know full well Haspen isn't that evil. (Yet.)

However, I still honestly don't see what the issue is. As far as my rather limited perception goes, this derives from misinterpretation of situations and intentions than any actual dickery on anyone's part (or so I hope).

Nobody's treating dissention as sabotage. The GM and the players, contrary to popular belief, are not in fact set in opposition, but working together to make a cool story to tell the kids someday. Everyone else has refuted the points better than I have or can hope to attempt, which is good because as far as I can judge, this whole argument seems derived from a misinterpretation of what people want from the game vs. how this is being communicated.

On a lighter note:

haspen-senpai
wen rp
i want sweet alissa/cecil action

Haspen

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Flora Brandt (GiglameshDespair) and Altha Etlern (Furtuka) for Chapter 3
Iris Brandt (swordstar) for Chapter 4
Suzanne Vogt (Gaterhyme) for Chapter 5

IC thread will soon be unlock'd and I will post the necessary stuff in it. Then the current people will have some RP time for themselves, and we will move on tomorrow (Tuesday).

That be all.
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Truly, we have the most uniquely talented spy network in all existence.
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Haspen

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Thread unlocked and necessary fluff posted. You can now RP (especially King Murdoc is needed)
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GiglameshDespair

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Nice.
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Swordstar

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F.O.E.

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rip me
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Twinwolf

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Re: Fire Emblem on Forums 6 (FEF6), OOC Thread!
« Reply #448 on: July 19, 2016, 05:25:22 am »

I didn't forget to answer, Mopsy, I went to sleep soon after the question was asked :P
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Mopsy

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Re: Fire Emblem on Forums 6 (FEF6), OOC Thread!
« Reply #449 on: July 19, 2016, 05:53:25 am »

OK. I interpreted it as IC reluctance - "What, is this an interrogation?". In any case, they know a little more about what's on Arnold's mind now.
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