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Author Topic: Unable to get far without stopping  (Read 1944 times)

portalcrazy

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Unable to get far without stopping
« on: June 22, 2016, 06:33:47 am »

for whatever dumb reason, i can't bring myself to play long enough to get to any of the 'Fun'. i've played for months and i haven't lost a single fortress -- because i keep deleting my save/abandoning and starting over.

anything you all could suggest to help me break this habit?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2016, 06:54:24 am »

It's up to you to define what you want to achieve with your fortress. If a perfect layout with perfect walls is your thing I wouldn't be surprised if a "flawed" fortress "has" to be discarded. However, if that's your problem the solution is probably the dwarven general solution to all ills, namely magma: this time in the form of obsidian.

In order for us to help you you need to describe both what you try to achieve, and why you start over.

In my case the key to keep going when the FPS is dropping is to finish whatever "project" I've decided that fortress should be dealing with.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2016, 06:57:52 am »

Don't worry about it. You're only saving yourself from fps death.

Play a bunch of short fortresses with simple goals and retire/abandon each time they're achieved. Make it a different civ each time for subtle variety. Then go visit them with adventurers. Check out what they're really worried about. Eventually you'll play one that strikes you as interesting enough to play past your goal at that point you're cured. Enjoy your Fun/fps death.

Alternatively, play something else? You might just need a break from the whole thing.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 07:01:45 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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snow dwarf

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2016, 07:26:23 am »

I have/had the same problem
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snow dwarf

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016, 07:39:45 am »

Guys how did you set the thing that changed the time goblin sieges arrive? Cause this was is problem solving thing,
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 08:47:11 am by snow dwarf »
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Sanctume

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 08:31:30 am »

Goblin army siege comes from a pool of goblin population, and their movements are tracked. 
So you need need a world gen with goblin civs with plenty of population. 
And in a continuous land so that army can path to your fortress.

There is an init setting of how many enemies can come and siege also.

Sanctume

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2016, 08:33:52 am »

for whatever dumb reason, i can't bring myself to play long enough to get to any of the 'Fun'. i've played for months and i haven't lost a single fortress -- because i keep deleting my save/abandoning and starting over.

anything you all could suggest to help me break this habit?

I've done that plenty of times.  The longest fortress I've had is maybe 5 to 7 years only.

I pick an objective/project or two when I embark.  Work towards learning how to do the objective, and I will be satisfied learning something.

snow dwarf

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2016, 08:45:13 am »

Goblin army siege comes from a pool of goblin population, and their movements are tracked. 
So you need need a world gen with goblin civs with plenty of population. 
And in a continuous land so that army can path to your fortress.

There is an init setting of how many enemies can come and siege also.
I'm sure there was a way to do it.
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Sanctume

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2016, 09:02:32 am »

There used to be a dfhack siege with something like "spawn unit."
I am not sure if spawn units ir working since after the "world move on" df feature.

Urist McVoyager

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2016, 09:51:26 am »

I think they're talking about the Entities file and the triggers.
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Robsoie

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2016, 10:08:30 am »

Probably this should help :
Quote
you can open the file
entity_default.txt
in the raws/objects/ folder

In the [ENTITY:MOUNTAIN] (that define the dwarves entities), look for
Quote
       [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:3]
       [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:0]
       [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:0]

This is what controls the goblin siege
By default , it means that goblin are willing to siege you at +/- 80 population ( PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:3 )
But your production and trading wealth has no bearing on their willingness to siege ( PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:0 and PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:0  basically means both triggers are disabled)

For the values, the pop_siege trigger :
Quote
    A value of 0 disables the trigger. 1 corresponds to 20 dwarves, 2 to 50 dwarves, 3 to 80, 4 to 110, and 5 to 140.

the prod siege trigger
Quote
    A value of 0 disables the trigger. 1 corresponds to 5000☼ created wealth, 2 to 25000☼, 3 to 100000☼, 4 to 200000☼, and 5 to 300000☼.

the trade siege trigger
Quote
    A value of 0 disables the trigger. 1 corresponds to 500☼ exported wealth, 2 to 2500☼, 3 to 10000☼, 4 to 20000☼, and 5 to 30000☼.

So according to this, to increase the challenge against gob siege, you may want to change
Quote
       [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:3]
       [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:0]
       [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:0]
into
Quote
       [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:1]
       [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:1]
       [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:1]

So gobs may be willing to siege when
- you reach 20 pop
- or you reach 5000¤ of created wealth
- or you reach 500¤ of exported wealth

Meaning that instead of +/- waiting 3 years to reach pop 80 for a goblin siege to really come (and so be very prepared with strong enough by the time military to destroy them all), you may be able to be sieged by the 1st year.

Now something else i noticed when looking at the entity_default.txt is that the goblin entities ( [ENTITY:EVIL]  ) is lacking the
[AMBUSHER]
tag (only the kobold, elves and subterrean people entities have it)

This may explain why i never saw goblin ambushes since df2014 while they were doing that in 34.11
So adding [AMBUSHER] to the [ENTITY:EVIL] could be helpful to have early challenges.

NOTE : changing the raws may require to generate a new world for them to take correctly effect
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2016, 12:16:01 pm »

Robsoie almost got it right (and the description is nice and clear)...

Replace the search for dwarves with goblins and you get what you want. The triggers are when the entity described is allowed to attack (or trade, for the other set of progress trigger parameters). (Robsoie's advice would define when dwarves are allowed to siege you, and that never happens).

While you're at it, you can change the human and elven parameters in the same way. Unless you start at war with them it won't matter much, provided you're not deliberately trying to goad them into a war, in which case you probably want it sooner rather than later.

I set the whole set of siege parameters to 1 for all the other races, as per Robsoie's advice.
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vjek

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2016, 02:28:22 pm »

in 43.03 (just tested it)

If you set: (in your saved region)
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:1]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PROD_SIEGE:0]
   [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE_SIEGE:0]
in entity_default.txt
under
[ENTITY:EVIL]

You can get "a vile force of darkness" with just 20 dwarves.
And roughly within the first year..  First siege arrived 1 Limestone, 1001, embarking in the year 1000, for example.

Daris

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2016, 05:16:59 pm »

for whatever dumb reason, i can't bring myself to play long enough to get to any of the 'Fun'. i've played for months and i haven't lost a single fortress -- because i keep deleting my save/abandoning and starting over.

anything you all could suggest to help me break this habit?

I've been doing generation forts.  Seven dwarves, no immigration, no visitors.  All subsequent population descends from the starting 7.

It's a different kind of challenge.  It makes me view children as valuable rather than as parasitic, and the game unfolds at a much slower pace.  There are challenges that you don't see in a normal fort, and other things that are far easier than a normal fort.  I get to know every dwarf and get to ensure that every dwarf has a useful profession.  Every project is a multi-year endeavor, and an achievement when it's completed.
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Salmeuk

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Re: Unable to get far without stopping
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2016, 07:33:15 pm »

try writing out a journal of all the going-ons in your fortress.

don't wall yourself in.

play with arbitrary challenges, like a carnivore fortress where you rely on butchery for all your food or where you HAVE to trade a certain number of goods each year otherwise you abandon.

DF is an easy game if you play it to "win", so treat it more like a simulation of narrative - plug in interesting modifiers for your story and you are bound to encounter fun.

Right now, I'm on an architecture kick. Every fortress has to have a different mode of design, so new fortresses are forcing me to be extra-creative with my room patterns and layouts. Knobs and pits and pools and whatnot.

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