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Poll

Should it exist?

Yes
- 81 (90%)
No
- 9 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 88


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Author Topic: Minimal wage - should it exist?  (Read 17763 times)

Sheb

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2016, 05:07:31 am »

I'm not even sure how to argue with you because you don't really present an argument.
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SirQuiamus

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2016, 05:15:10 am »

Minimal wage - should it exist?
Minimal wages are already ubiquitous and very minimal indeed, and that's all according to plan.

On the other hand, minimum wage is a dirty communist plot to oppress innocent capitalists, and cannot be tolerated under any circumstances.  >:(
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BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2016, 05:21:18 am »

No minimum wage; Minimum value.
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Sheb

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2016, 05:22:29 am »

Geez, just let the waiter starve.

More seriously, I support some kind of minimum wage to make sure people that are working can live off their work. Sure, too high a minimum wage can be an issue, but a reasonable one should not negatively affect employment, as the job losses caused by companies shedding now unprofitable jobs are compensated by the jobs created by all the minimum wages workers consuming the cash they got from their higher wage.
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Neonivek

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2016, 05:22:29 am »

In all fairness it isn't like the United States doesn't ALREADY have Slave labor AND jobs that pay less than minimum wage. (and no, not making either of those up! Look it up!)
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BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2016, 05:24:30 am »

Geez, just let the waiter starve.

More seriously, I support some kind of minimum wage to make sure people that are working can live off their work. Sure, too high a minimum wage can be an issue, but a reasonable one should not negatively affect employment, as the job losses caused by companies shedding now unprofitable jobs are compensated by the jobs created by all the minimum wages workers consuming the cash they got from their higher wage.
If you were referring to my post, I meant there should be a minimum value, or else the extra income is pesos.
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Sergarr

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2016, 05:51:43 am »

"No minimum wage" sounds like a very quick way to re-introduce legalized slavery back into the society. I'll pass.
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BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2016, 05:53:11 am »

What will prevent an increase in prices, which will eat up the minimum wage?
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Sheb

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2016, 05:57:53 am »

What will prevent an increase in prices, which will eat up the minimum wage?

Pegging the minimum wage to inflation?
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BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2016, 06:04:26 am »

What will prevent an increase in prices, which will eat up the minimum wage?

Pegging the minimum wage to inflation?
Then I support minimum wage adjusted for inflation.
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BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2016, 06:09:39 am »

What do you think - should it exist or not?

Personally I am against it as it prevents employment of young people, and forces those redundant to be sacked as their employer cannot afford their work with already outrageous taxes that in EU cause more and more businessmen to close their small and medium companies. Some of my friends have lost their jobs like that, and it is not fair. They would have gladly worked for less but can't now.

If a person wants to work for less than a minimum wage, how on earth can anyone forbid them from doing so?
Why is the law penalizing a worker for accepting less, instead of the employer for paying less?
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Jimmy

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2016, 06:16:01 am »

As an employer, I commonly pay minimum wage to my employees, and I consider it a good guide to estimating what a person entering a position can expect to receive. I also offer opportunities for employees to upskill their position and reward them with increases in wage to reflect their skills.

Frankly, if there was no minimum wage, I'd probably pay my employees less than I do now, and it's likely they'd take it too. Minimum wage offers a good benchmark for us small business employers to set the bar for entry level wages.
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2016, 06:27:17 am »

So, something I want to spin here, see how folks respond. Doesn't really reflect my opinions, but I like the argument it presents.


I've seen that most of the economically-conservative folks I've met want to privatize various institutions. I imagine welfare is one of those institutions. What is a living wage other than a privatized welfare system? You're putting the onus of giving people enough income to live above the poverty line on the employer, not on the taxpayer. It's ideally capitalistic compared to those damn European welfare states. The only folks who would even need welfare at that point would be the unemployed.

You could go in the other direction and replace minimum wage with unconditional basic income. Let the taxpayers fund themselves and then supplement their income by taking up jobs with no lower limit on wage. Sure, that means that companies can make you work for nearly free (like some kind of filthy intern), but on the other hand with a guaranteed income you also have much more liberty to tell them to go fuck themselves and survive on your own.

Thinking about it this way, basic income begins to make sense to me, as it essentially is just minimum wage + unemployment benefits rolled together and universalized. What sort of tax plan (presumably one that hits companies about as hard as minimum wage does presently) and compromise on other benefits you'd need to make it possible on a large scale or what economic ramifications it would have remains to be seen, though. Wonder how Switzerland's doing with their plan.
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sluissa

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2016, 06:30:12 am »

In a functioning state with basic welfare, the minimum wage is important. It prevents employers from getting significant work from employees while also having the employees be making low enough income to qualify for welfare. When this happens it means that tax payers are basically paying for the work of the employee for that company instead of the company paying for it.

In theory, the minimum wage should prevent this. In practice, it still happens quite a bit in the US. This is a reason the minimum wage in the US is currently broken, and at least in some areas where the cost of living is high, the wage needs to be raised. As you have people working 35-40 hours a week or more. Almost, at, or beyond full time job levels, and still making low enough to qualify for food assistance.

This isn't limited to fast food or retail jobs either. Even as highly thought of occupations as airline pilots fall into this category. One common situation among newly graduated airline pilots is being hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt because of their training, and making wages low enough to qualify for food stamps in their first years flying as copilot.

Some occupations don't even have the minimum wage applied consistently and have to fight for it to be done if they end up paid less than it. Company truck drivers are notorious about this. Often paid by distance traveled, poor luck, bad conditions, or bad dispatching by the company can leave a truck driver in the best case, with a meager stipend for 24-48 hours of sitting, and in the worst case, completely unpaid for a bad weather event or traffic blockage.
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The Walmart class action lawsuit accused the company of not paying its truck drivers for certain activities including inspections, waiting at weigh sales, rest breaks, washing trucks and fueling. Judge Illston’s ruling was that truck drivers should be paid at least minimum wage for “all the time they work.” The Walmart class action lawsuit could result in truck drivers receiving more than $100 million in back pay.

The point is that while currently broken in many areas, a proper minimum wage setup should be enforced, because if you're not working for the minimum amount needed to survive then you might as well not be working at all or giving your work away on a non-paid volunteer basis. If we expect to live in a society where we want to guarantee people even the most basic welfare as nutrition assistance, just keeping people from completely starving (often not even keeping them from being hungry, just not dying from it) then we need a minimum wage in order to keep the welfare from going to the companies instead of the people. Because that's exactly what happens when people are being paid below a proper minimum wage.

There are other reasons too, of course, but this is the one I've always found most compelling and easiest to logic out to people who were against it. The fact that no or too low of a minimum wage costs tax dollars tends to get to people. And while some people are against welfare as a whole, many people are less against the idea of helping people to not starve at a minimum.
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pisskop

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Re: Minimal wage - should it exist?
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2016, 06:35:26 am »

"No minimum wage" sounds like a very quick way to re-introduce legalized slavery back into the society. I'll pass.
^^


MW is there to provide a basic insurance to workers and thilus the economy exist in.
these workers have this much money.

its all too easy to just force demand for jobs outstrip supply and drop down wages

but forget all that 15 usd minwag nonsense
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 06:38:20 am by pisskop »
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