Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Total ban

3 (5%)

Strict laws, harsh penalties, strict regulation and record-keeping with check-ups every so often

23 (38.3%)

Something in between

9 (15%)

As it stands now

6 (10%)

Total freedom

17 (28.3%)

Abstain

2 (3.3%)

Total Members Voted: 59

[piratejoe]

The chance of that happening are close enough to null for me. Even if they did, they would instantly have EVERYONE ELSE at war with them.

Spoiler: Then why does this country exist? (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Or to a somewhat lesser extent this one? (click to show/hide)

Honestly the main issue with gun control in the USA is that there are "No gun zones" or what i like to call them "Terrorist shooting ranges" because it only inhibits law abiding citizens, not criminals who don't care about the law.

[BFEL]

The thing is, though, I haven't heard of a massacre which was foiled because of people owning a gun.

Because generally people who go around massacreing people do so in places law abiding people aren't allowed to take their guns.

You never hear of any massacres starting at firing ranges now do you?

[Orange Wizard]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/

Here you go. Quick google search was all it took.

So it's pretty rare that they're stopped, then

Honestly the main issue with gun control in the USA is that there are "No gun zones" or what i like to call them "Terrorist shooting ranges" because it only inhibits law abiding citizens, not criminals who don't care about the law.

The main problem is that crims can get their grubby little paws on guns with which to kill people in the first place, not that respectable citizens are unable to riddle them with bullets in schools

You never hear of any massacres starting at firing ranges now do you?

So we stop gun violence by making sure our schoolchildren are packing their own guns, right

No way this could backfire

[BFEL]

The main problem is that crims can get their grubby little paws on guns with which to kill people in the first place

Well unless you have a Bottled Djinn you've been saving this is literally never going to not be the case. No matter what laws you pass, no matter how difficult you make it, THEY. WILL. GET. GUNS.

[Orange Wizard]

How the hell do you not see the correlation between better gun control and fewer deaths?

[Antioch]

The main problem is that crims can get their grubby little paws on guns with which to kill people in the first place

Well unless you have a Bottled Djinn you've been saving this is literally never going to not be the case. No matter what laws you pass, no matter how difficult you make it, THEY. WILL. GET. GUNS.

Not really, mass shootings are quite often performed by deranged persons, who generally don't have connections to get a gun.

Also police here have caught quite a few people trying to buy guns by posing as gun sellers, its a very effective police tactic.

[Sheb]

Yeah, youll never stop 100% of criminals from getting gun. But stopping 90% is already nice.

[piratejoe]

Yeah, youll never stop 100% of criminals from getting gun. But stopping 90% is already nice.

That's not how it works... you know that only 1 or so % of drugs shipped to the usa are actually stopped from getting there right? Why wouldn't that be the same with guns? They aren't even that hard to make.

[Dorsidwarf]

Yeah, youll never stop 100% of criminals from getting gun. But stopping 90% is already nice.

That's not how it works... you know that only 1 or so % of drugs shipped to the usa are actually stopped from getting there right? Why wouldn't that be the same with guns? They aren't even that hard to make.

It can be quite hard to shove an AK-47 up your bum in a plastic bag, for a start.

[sluissa]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/

Here you go. Quick google search was all it took.

So it's pretty rare that they're stopped, then

As was stated in the article:

Many mass shootings happen in supposedly “gun-free” zones (such as schools, universities, bars, or private property posted with a no-guns sign), in which gun carrying isn’t allowed in many states. And there is no central database of such examples, many of which don’t hit the national media, especially if a gunman is stopped before he shoots many victims.

Even the database that the article you linked references doesn't do a good job of describing what happened. Just that "X people were hurt/killed with guns."

While I will say I'm more on the side of "They're already out in the wild, putting restrictions on guns won't keep them out of the hands of people that want to do illegal things with them." Almost all of the reports, media, studies, and cries for X to happen. Paint the picture in a biased fashion to the point where I don't know what I can or can't trust from either side.

As it stands, I live in a culture where they're pretty prevalent. I don't personally carry, but half my friends or family are probably carrying any time I'm out with them. I basically expect anyone I meet to be carrying.  In many ways it does make me feel safer, among my friends, or even among strangers knowing that "Hey, if something bad happens I probably won't have to wait for police to arrive."

At the same time, we do a piss poor job of educating people. This allows a lot of accidents to happen and also allows the other side of the debate to get away with a "Trust us, these things are scary and evil" monologue. It's a tool, like many tools it can hurt you or other people if used improperly. Treat it with respect and know how to use it and for what purposes and everyone will be safer for it.

[piratejoe]

To be honest banning guns does jack, so its better to keep them, after all, who knows when the next north korea is gona pop up.

[MarcAFK]

I'm in favour of gun control, however conversely I'm dismayed at how hard it is to get guns in Australia, go figure.
I'm just going to link this TED talk by the chief of the Norwegian defence force talking about his conflicting thoughts on the subject.
http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_van_uhm_why_i_chose_a_gun
Not entirely related really, but the link im thinking of is based on the American idea that an armed militia is needed to balance the risk of corrupt government. The guns are there if needed, but shouldn't necessarily be used, as the general argues that an army is needed for defence but in no way does having an army justify using it unconscionably.

[Antioch]

To be honest banning guns does jack, so its better to keep them, after all, who knows when the next north korea is gona pop up.

And how many totalitarian dictatorships have been prevented by arming the population?

If I recall correctly totalitarian states like the Soviet Union and China won the the civil wars that led to their creation BECAUSE they were supported by the people.

 So I kinda fail to see how arming the people is supposed to protect against that.

[piratejoe]

To be honest banning guns does jack, so its better to keep them, after all, who knows when the next north korea is gona pop up.

And how many totalitarian dictatorships have been prevented by arming the population?

If I recall correctly totalitarian states like the Soviet Union and China won the the civil wars that led to their creation BECAUSE they were supported by the people.

 So I kinda fail to see how arming the people is supposed to protect against that.

Because Hillery Clinton has been cheating in the elections and i fear that the U.S.S.A might become a thing

[Orange Wizard]

That's not how it works... you know that only 1 or so % of drugs shipped to the usa are actually stopped from getting there right? Why wouldn't that be the same with guns? They aren't even that hard to make.

Drugs aren't guns, gun trafficking is much harder because they're giant hunks of metal+plastic compared to a small pile of dust. Countries with restrictions on guns have fewer guns because guns can be effectively restricted.

Even the database that the article you linked references doesn't do a good job of describing what happened. Just that "X people were hurt/killed with guns."

... and countries with effective gun control have lower numbers of people getting hurt+killed.

As it stands, I live in a culture where they're pretty prevalent. I don't personally carry, but half my friends or family are probably carrying any time I'm out with them. I basically expect anyone I meet to be carrying.  In many ways it does make me feel safer, among my friends, or even among strangers knowing that "Hey, if something bad happens I probably won't have to wait for police to arrive."

I live in NZ where very few people have guns, normally only hunters and enthusiasts who have to pass police vetting. Our cops are unarmed. I feel vastly safer than being surrounded by things that could kill me with a twitch of a finger.

At the same time, we do a piss poor job of educating people. This allows a lot of accidents to happen and also allows the other side of the debate to get away with a "Trust us, these things are scary and evil" monologue. It's a tool, like many tools it can hurt you or other people if used improperly. Treat it with respect and know how to use it and for what purposes and everyone will be safer for it.

And like other deadly tools, make sure people know how to use it before you let them have it.

To be honest banning guns does jack, so its better to keep them, after all, who knows when the next north korea is gona pop up.

Wow that's some biased crap there

So I kinda fail to see how arming the people is supposed to protect against that.

It's not, 2nd amendment was to protect against insurgency, hence "well regulated militia", lolberals just want you to believe that more weapons == safer because people can't shoot you if you're armed too

I'm dismayed at how hard it is to get guns in Australia, go figure.

I'm pretty sad that I can't buy a howitzer.

Because Hillery Clinton has been cheating in the elections and i fear that the U.S.S.A might become a thing

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha wow