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Author Topic: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1913 design  (Read 12613 times)

griffinpup

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2016, 10:38:54 pm »

Does anyone think that we don't need something better then blackpowder first? It seems good.
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Stirk

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2016, 10:43:55 pm »

I would like to see a quick tallying of votes.

Handheld rocket launcher: 1 (Ukrainian Ranger, KiwiOui)
Finding an improvement to gunpowder as an explosive/propellant: 2 (Stirk, Griffinpup)
Fire Sparrow: 1 (RAM)

At last I think that is how the voting breaks down due to the most recent posts. Correct me if I am wrong.
I proposed a carbine.

Sorry, I think I had you confused for someone else :/. That too^.
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evilcherry

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2016, 12:58:29 am »

Quote
Finding an improvement to gunpowder as an explosive/propellant: 2 (Stirk, Griffinpup)

Your engineers have noticed that the Fire Phoenix Guns fires their own ammunition, which is not only more powerful, but also burns very differently to the black powder of Fire Dragon Guns. You contacted the outside wheat eaters for more samples of these stuff, and they delivered a cask of them and a case full of paper describing its production, in a foreign language.

On testing, They proved superior to black powder, but suffers from two big problems: Flying Crows tend to explode prematurely if the stuff is not packed in a very specific way, and its hard to produce that stuff, even after deciphering that case of paper. Your Chief of Army Supply seized two distilleries that was producing triple distilled rice wine to produce more of the stuff, to general uproar of the population and your export minister.

In short:

RAM

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Revise
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2016, 04:43:33 am »

Incendiaries should be effective against troop concentrations, supply depots, and fortifications, which should be relevant, and they shouldn't be all that much worse than cannons to use on open ships while likely being more of an issue when they hit ships, as there is little room to escape a fire... But meh, no matter.

+1 to handheld missiles using the new propellant.
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Stirk

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Revise
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2016, 10:13:12 am »

Incendiaries should be effective against troop concentrations, supply depots, and fortifications, which should be relevant, and they shouldn't be all that much worse than cannons to use on open ships while likely being more of an issue when they hit ships, as there is little room to escape a fire... But meh, no matter.

+1 to handheld missiles using the new propellant.

I'll argue this the next design phase, we are now in Revision. Any ideas for this phase?
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RAM

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Revise
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2016, 04:52:20 pm »

Well... The obvious would be NuPowder + Fire Crow + improve the production methods...
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griffinpup

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Revise
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2016, 06:20:30 pm »

Now we want to use this new propellant in our weapons, right?  That's the whole point?
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Stirk

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Revise
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2016, 06:46:40 pm »

Well... The obvious would be NuPowder + Fire Crow + improve the production methods...

As you said, that would be the obvious way to go. Fire Crow is already Double Complex, if we assume it can't be increased beyond that, then it would be a perfect fit for our rockets. The problem of production methods looks like it will solve itself, given enough time.

Now we want to use this new propellant in our weapons, right?  That's the whole point?

Mostly in our future designs, yes. As it stand now, changing *all* our designs to this would mean that only ~1/100 of our troops is armed with anything stronger than a sabre. Aside from that issue, we really don't want to waste a phase on something we are going to make obsolete next turn anyway. If we plan on making an upgrade to the Fire Crow, for example, then using this turn to upgrade it would be a waste.
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evilcherry

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Revise
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2016, 12:56:21 am »

Are there any concrete plan among you guys?

RAM

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Revise
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2016, 04:06:06 am »

Upgrading the crow seems solid, the hand-held version would need to be smaller, so the crow will not vanish according to current plans, while a carbine will probably replace much of our armaments...

I would like to work on the navy at some point but that is probably a little ways off, so maybe a revision in there would work, but I do not see much that a revision could achieve...
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Stirk

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Revise
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2016, 09:10:58 am »

Are there any concrete plan among you guys?

I think the only plan we got is "Update the Fire Crow with the smokeless powder" (Stirk/RAM votes?)


Upgrading the crow seems solid, the hand-held version would need to be smaller, so the crow will not vanish according to current plans, while a carbine will probably replace much of our armaments...

I would like to work on the navy at some point but that is probably a little ways off, so maybe a revision in there would work, but I do not see much that a revision could achieve...

Seeing as a percussion-cap flintlock is "Complex", something as complicated as a carbine won't be able to replace our standard armaments for some time.
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evilcherry

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Revise
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2016, 07:31:03 pm »

I guess it won't hurt.

Spoiler: Smokeless Fire Crow (click to show/hide)

No spies, since you know their starting loadout. Now for battle!

NRDL

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Battle
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2016, 07:37:25 pm »

PTW
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evilcherry

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1910 Battle
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2016, 12:14:56 pm »

Chang Shing uses these weapons:
Spoiler: Chang Shing 1911 (click to show/hide)


Naval Battle:

Naval battles were usually like this. Sloops find a Junk in an unwanted position, gives chase, Junk turns downwind, Sloops break chase. With the improved fire crows, one of your ships now breaks the cycle, and actually sinks a Sloop from a very far range. Apparently this is enough to make Manonerans cower. Slight Advantage to Chang Shing.

Land Battle, Far West Island line (Mountain):

Even you are now landing more troops on the rocks, and with rockets brought ashore, they found it hard to advance an inch. Your brave soldiers were met with a higher intensity of enemy fire, from a range not really reachable from your muskets, and your Elite fire phoenix gun users are now picked off more often. You lose ground, Fighting on 1st tile on your side.

Land Battle, Far East Island line (Rocks on the sea):

In this area, your junks resorted to the tactic of shooting rockets as the enemy were rowing across the waterways between rocks, causing a lot of casualties. On the other hand, most of your counter attacks over water were defeated by a hail of gunfire from well defended positions. Stalemate, fighting on 2nd tile from your side.

Land Battle, West Mainland Line (Swamps)

In this part, the rockets are seeing some use, but the terrain and low accuracy means they are usually just fired at a general direction, without assessing its effects, and charges following rocket fire were either soundly repulsed by a larger amount of gunfire, or unopposed because they enemy simply wasn't there. Your officers also get picked apart from seemingly nowhere, making organization difficult. Bit by bit, due to poor organization and ineffective charges, you lose ground. Fighting on 2nd tile from your side.

Land Battle, East Mainland line (Plains)

The Rockets were put into good use here. Despite its small numbers, the flat terrain and its improved range means your troops can actually use it as a direct fire weapon. A large enough number of them were brought up and fired into the same direction. As the enemy is in disarray, your cavalry charges in and mop the enemy up. Your officers gets picked about, and in a line to line battle your infantry loses squarely to their superior firepower, but your combined arms charge was fearsome enough that you slowly gains ground. Fighting on 4th tile from your side.

Its 1911 Design phase.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 12:28:15 pm by evilcherry »
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Blind Arms Race - Empire of Chang Shing Thread - 1911 design
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2016, 12:47:04 pm »

I want to learn about their rifle before designing a counter.

How about a steam powered ship to dominate the seas? Next turn we will go for a small arm
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