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[birdy51]

im surprised noone mentioned eve so far.
very old school. not very difficult, but incredible complex. one just needs to know how stuff works to make things work.

I've only heard complicated things about EVE involving spreadsheets, so I am certain that this would likely fit the bill in some way shape or form.

Spoiler: Further Derailments (click to show/hide)

For the record, I'm not a fan of over sexualization at any point. However, I also know that it's a prominent trait in Japanese media, so I'm not liable to be surprised when or if it pops up. To me, it's akin to watching Game of Thrones and there is a sex scene.

Few people actually enjoy it, and everyone sort of waits for the actual plot to get on with it, especially since the overall work has merits. I would consider it this way as well with the Atelier series.

Which, I wouldn't describe it as 'loli' series. What I would call it is girly as shit. That's an adjective I could get behind. O.o

[Culise]

Spoiler: Derail only, no items, Final Destination (click to show/hide)

Yeah, I'm sure the game is fine but the lolicon style makes me uncomfortable so I'm giving it a pass. I don't really mind or judge others for playing it though.

Honestly, it's why I eventually stopped playing the Atelier games.  The first one I played was Atelier Annie, where the titular Annie looked like this.  Her predecessor, also in the game, was Liese.  Then you just basically watch as the skirts get shorter and shorter, the tops get lower and lower, and the stars look younger and younger (in some cases a bit more literally than others, for those who played the Arland trilogy), and you start to wonder about the line between lolicon and pedo-baiting, which is not typically a line I want to even have in sight from either side.  Alright, so setting aside the age question entirely, the sexualization of the characters is not a new trend considering the very first star of the game wore this outfit, but it was new to me at the time, as before this point I had largely only known the series by its very strong reputation based on gameplay, characters, and plot.  Atelier Meruru was the last one I played, more or less for that reason.  The gameplay was loads of fun and the characters themselves were interesting, but the aesthetic just bugged me.  I mean, I might go back and start playing them again someday, but I'm just going to continue to take a break for a while.

[Neonivek]

The Paradox method tends to be... Disguise simplicity AS complexity without really having the interlocking requirements to go all the way.

Hence Crusader Kings 2... and why no matter what relationship statuses are... People will still want eachother's deaths. To name one.

Yes I am still bitter about that. Destroyed the entire game for me that nothing mattered.

[Gigalith]

No one's mentioned Dominions yet? It's really complex in terms of tiny details that maybe once become critical.

[Ekaton]

Especially with certain mods - such as HIP for CKII, MEIOU & Taxes for EUIV, and BlackICE for HoI 3 they can get pretty complex. Vanilla games are not that complex in my opinion.

[Cormack]

Any games that are like DF but in real world?

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Any games that are like DF but in real world?

Unreal World loosely fits the bill.

[EnigmaticHat]

Any games that are like DF but in real world?

Prison Architect provides something surprisingly to DF's game flow without the massive slowdown and blatant balance issues.  Although it is *not* complex.  I mean its complex by normal standards but I'm not going to call it complex on the DF forums.

[LoSboccacc]

Any games that are like DF but in real world?

Prison Architect provides something surprisingly to DF's game flow without the massive slowdown and blatant balance issues.  Although it is *not* complex.  I mean its complex by normal standards but I'm not going to call it complex on the DF forums.

rimworld as well, and I enjoy the settings much much more (crash landed colony instead of gloomy prison)

[Ekaton]

I second Cormack's question - are there complex simulations comparable to DF set in the pre-historical times, or ancient times, or perhaps in the future?

[Trolldefender99]

Okay, okay. Yeah I know this is from 2016...

But the topic was mentioned on Rule the Waves 2 thread. And I was looking for complex games...and then I discovered Mars Simulation Project + war in the pacific, which I never heard about either.

I bought war in the pacific (wow is that expensive), but haven't started yet. I guess its a niche game so niche price, but I did see a video of it and it looks pretty intense. Like...someone said its almost not a game, and its pretty accurate.

Mars Simulation Project is still getting updates apparently? Their facebook is active, so I assume its still a thing. Can't find any videos on it though, get a bunch of stuff about surviving mars instead. But it sounds like a game I was wanting out of surviving mars, but super niche and complex I guess. We'll see when I get started.

So I haven't played both yet, and yeah this is from 2016...this is probably the biggest necro thread the forum has ever seen that wasn't from a bot or spammer lol. But both games look so amazing that I had to comment on it.

And hey maybe there'll be games since 2016 that are just as good and complex (besides rule the waves 2)

[gimlet]

CataclysmDDA is kind of getting up there.   Rimworld too, especially if you add in a bunch of mods.

https://www.wallstreetraider.com/

Capitalism/Capitalism Lab.

[ollobrains]

catalysm DDA, pioneer space sim, aurora 4x is another complex beast, dwarf fortress naturally, distant worlds space sim is another complex 4x.

OpenTTD is getting there in the transport sim department with the rail and network setup.

[Iduno]

Caves of Qud has a lot going on under the hood for a fairly standard roguelike. Like randomly generated historical figures to learn about and find the burial places of, randomly generated books that are semi-readable, randomly generated villages, and occasional randomly generated hostile NPCs (like in TOME 4, sometimes OP, sometimes weak).

The Paradox method tends to be... Disguise simplicity AS complexity without really having the interlocking requirements to go all the way.

Hence Crusader Kings 2... and why no matter what relationship statuses are... People will still want each other's deaths. To name one.

Yes I am still bitter about that. Destroyed the entire game for me that nothing mattered.

Super agreed.

[AlStar]

I bought war in the pacific (wow is that expensive), but haven't started yet. I guess its a niche game so niche price, but I did see a video of it and it looks pretty intense. Like...someone said its almost not a game, and its pretty accurate.

Hopefully the interface has aged gracefully - (I know that it's a bit different since we're talking about it in the Bay12 forums, where we are used to pain) - because as I remember when I played (many years ago, now) there was a lot of click-throughs required to really get into the meat of commanding your forces.

That said, it's an amazing game - best if you can find someone to play against, since the AI isn't terribly bright. I can still remember a squadron of WW1-era biplane torpedo bombers that I intentionally didn't upgrade, because their upgrade path turned them into some very, very poor fighter-bombers. I managed to launch a surprise attack with them against a taskforce that had little or no cap, and these flying relics actually managed to put a couple torpedoes into a battleship.

The pilots, naturally thrilled with this outcome, reported they'd managed to sink the ship; although when I was discussing it later with my opponent, learned that the ship had only been put into dry dock for ~6 months.