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[Vaughn]

This is a game where you can take someone and break each of his fingers one-by-one, tear off his limbs, beat him to death with his own eyeballs, and yet the idea of sex is off-limits.

Not that I really care that much, obviously Toady wouldn't even consider adding this (this thread is probably better off being locked anyway), but I just find it curious how mass, incredibly gory violence to the point of people's skin rotting off is okay but sex is not.

EDIT: I reworded my original post because it might have sent very wrong signals.

Oh, for Armok's sake. Violence is waaaaaaay less tabooed than sex. Imagine yourself as a kid, watching some gory action movie. Will you feel yourself guilty? Hell no, you would be enjoying the process all the way without fear of being caught watching. Now imagine yourself as a kid, watching some movie with a lot of sex scenes. Do I even need to explain further?

[Random_Dragon]

Because 'murrica.

Comic link related: http://satwcomic.com/anything-but-that

[Hinaichigo]

If a player indulges in rape, it's basically too late for empathy. Personally, I could tolerate rape in the game, AS LONG AS it was not possible for the player to rape, ever, OR to make a fortress dwarf more likely to commit rape. I'm okay with historical rapes being documented in Legends mode. I'm okay with invaders coming in and mixing a little raping in with their burning & pillaging. I'm okay with rape being an accepted practice in goblin societies. But because of today's culture of rape apologists, willing to downplay real attacks as "twenty minutes of action" and the like, I absolutely will not accept any attempt to portray sexual assault as something that is "okay" for the player to do, or even "allowed".

That's an extremely paternalistic viewpoint. You seem to want to control what other people do in their own homes with a single player video game. 

[FantasticDorf]

Hini, we cannot all assume that people who play this free software game we call DF on the open internet are all of responsible/legal age and mature enough to handle the content. Im quite certain that despite the learning curve, there are actually quite a few 11 -15 year olds (more or less added onto that number for a range) who probably should have some sort of supervision depending on age given the heavy topics that occasionally prop up in df, this one included. Though a heavy handed parental 'shut it all down' rhetoric might not be the answer, we need to account for the variable of who plays the game in order to be ethically responsible for ourselves (not that we need to publish, 'clean' versions and 'dirty' versions via a medium like signup to the forums, requiring enforcement but also convolution of the community by dividing content and discussion up)

If we had a defined age rating already, we'd be already verging on the 16-18 rating based off the explicit (not really graphic mind) fantasy violence alone with at best a 14 years of age rating. Adding rape/explicit detailed sexual content that may/may not be consensual to that would bump it up to a exclusively adult/mature title and likely call for censored/bans on versions of the game, treating it like its on the retail market for example.

[Hinaichigo]

Hini, we cannot all assume that people who play this free software game we call DF on the open internet are all of responsible/legal age and mature enough to handle the content. Im quite certain that despite the learning curve, there are actually quite a few 11 -15 year olds (more or less added onto that number for a range) who probably should have some sort of supervision depending on age given the heavy topics that occasionally prop up in df, this one included. Though a heavy handed parental 'shut it all down' rhetoric might not be the answer, we need to account for the variable of who plays the game in order to be ethically responsible for ourselves (not that we need to publish, 'clean' versions and 'dirty' versions via a medium like signup to the forums, requiring enforcement but also convolution of the community by dividing content and discussion up)

If we had a defined age rating already, we'd be already verging on the 16-18 rating based off the explicit (not really graphic mind) fantasy violence alone with at best a 14 years of age rating. Adding rape/explicit detailed sexual content that may/may not be consensual to that would bump it up to a exclusively adult/mature title and likely call for censored/bans on versions of the game, treating it like its on the retail market for example.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the children. As a society we do need to protect their fragile developing minds from harmful influences and poisons. Those unfortunate children who learn of sexual violence before their brains are fully developed and reinforced at the age of 18 are often warped into depraved fiends and sick degenerates, as is well known by all. I must admit that it slipped my mind.

[FantasticDorf]

Snarky memes aside. Yeah, fragile minds have got to 'get over' and 'conquer' this stuff eventually to take your kind of view literally, but there's no need to desensitise them to such a profane act so explicitly within a video game. Violence is already kind of trivialised by popular culture, but we take it for granted because its a universal feature (it happens on all levels of life and is nessecary for a large percentage of causes related to death)and scale it to what's appropriate. Rape is a outside factor to our society and is justifiably vilified, we dont accept rape as a universal feature and its treated as a individual negative act (as it should be) or connected to other similar acts. If it never existed in the world, though we wouldn't know it, the whole world would be a much better place. A world in contrast without some form of violence cannot exist to function as it does now.

We do have a responsibility in society to be accountable for our actions. Parents have to be accountable for thier children (legally and morally), the devs and community have to be responsible for distributing and discussing the game, and children have to be accountable for themselves like anybody else.

Children make their own minds up regardless is my own view, if they want to do something henious they just draw out of what they know or what they've seen regardless or discard the idea alltogether if they cant come up with a plan. There's no stopping them when they have the intent. But normalising something just adds it to the mental lockbox as ammunition, arming them with mental concepts of sexual assault before they are mature enough to rule it out of their minds (which is increasingly rare in modern day) is not in the least a good idea at all.

[Egan_BW]

Sometimes it is necessary to create things that could conceivably be misused by someone in the future, lest civilization collapse for lack of any sharp things.

[FantasticDorf]

Sometimes it is necessary to create things that could conceivably be misused by someone in the future, lest civilization collapse for lack of any sharp things.

Sharp things are usually applied for a reason, to threaten/punish but also to protect/mutually assure destruction, look at the atomic bomb for instance, the sharpest tool in the shed. Albert Einstien once said, "I know not what weapons world war three will be fought with, but world war four will be fought with sticks and stones".

The subject of rape in this kind of context is none of these things, its completely unnecessary and self serving. People are really digging deep in this conversation to reason that it does have a use (education/making a point/portraying real life etc) to a point where its getting disturbingly prolonged and lengthy to the resolve in making it happen.

[Random_Dragon]

Obok Meatgod is pleased with all this shitposting and arguing.

[Egan_BW]

I'm not arguing for or against its inclusion. I'm merely pointing out that not making things because people will misuse them will lead to making nothing at all.
Also did you just compare the creation of the atomic bomb favorably to a feature you dislike in a video game. Just checking.

[FantasticDorf]

I'm not arguing for or against its inclusion. I'm merely pointing out that not making things because people will misuse them will lead to making nothing at all.
Also did you just compare the creation of the atomic bomb favorably to a feature you dislike in a video game. Just checking.

And now speaking quite literally, nuclear deterrants keep us safe every single day from some lunatic throwing them around and wiping us out in one go.

[Egan_BW]

Only good guys with WMDs can stop bad guys with WMDs.

[FantasticDorf]

Only good guys with WMDs can stop bad guys with WMDs.

There are no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' just people with varying degrees of moral responsibility and sanity stopping each other from the inevitable for the time being.

[Egan_BW]

So anyway what does the theory of deterrence have to do with the thread subject?

[Random_Dragon]

[Scheissepostend Verstärkt]