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Author Topic: Prostitution  (Read 5957 times)

Cormack

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Prostitution
« on: June 15, 2016, 03:04:33 pm »

Were there ever any plans to include it in the game? To play as or interact with NPC.
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Reelya

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2016, 06:27:55 pm »

I seriously doubt it. Toady generally won't touch any topic like that.

SixOfSpades

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2016, 07:05:51 pm »

Considering that dwarves never mate with ANYONE other than their legally-married spouse (indeed, they never even show any interest in doing so), any would-be prostitute in a dwarven community would quickly find themselves looking for another job.

On a related note, what would / should a dwarven community do when a person of such vastly different beliefs enters their town, and proceeds to advertise their lascivious intent? Immediately banish them? Punish them first? Grudgingly tolerate them? What about when your fort is visited by a nudist adventurer? Does everyone run over to press spare clothing upon the poor soul (an easy mechanic to abuse, if you like selling clothing), or do they lock him in a room with some sheep wool & a loom, not letting him out until he conforms to their standards of decency?
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Starver

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2016, 07:08:05 pm »

What about when your fort is visited by a nudist adventurer? Does everyone run over to press spare clothing upon the poor soul (an easy mechanic to abuse, if you like selling clothing), or do they lock him in a room with some sheep
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2016, 08:22:16 pm »

For those who are apparently unaware. Dwarves are not the only playable race in this game. That said, until standard adventurer sex and romance is implemented it's not likely to happen.

Wait until the economy release and even then don't hold your breath as it'll probably come down to, "Hey Zach, what does prostitution add to the game?", "Hmmm. Nothing?" "Right, let's move on to goblin-ball and arena games. Gotta finish that before the 30th anniversary celebrations".
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Neonivek

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2016, 08:22:51 pm »

This is kind of asking for trouble because well...

Prostitution was sometimes a very lucrative and sometimes VERY INFLUENCIAL job.

It is actually a very complex subject with many facets. It wasn't the Grimy job (well in places where it is illegal... Where it is fully legal it isn't so bad) it got the reputation for today (not that it couldn't happen)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:25:47 pm by Neonivek »
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Cormack

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2016, 09:08:14 pm »

This is kind of asking for trouble because well...

Prostitution was sometimes a very lucrative and sometimes VERY INFLUENCIAL job.

It is actually a very complex subject with many facets. It wasn't the Grimy job (well in places where it is illegal... Where it is fully legal it isn't so bad) it got the reputation for today (not that it couldn't happen)

I like the idea of a prostitute controlling her lover like in 18th century France, being a very important person on the court, someone you really want to please in order to get something. Would really improve the shady part of the game - plotting, scheming and cunning.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2016, 10:58:27 am »

Why not add rape and child molestation into the game too?
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Ekaton

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2016, 11:35:59 am »

Why not add rape and child molestation into the game too?

I'd say that there's a pretty long way from prostitution to that.
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Cormack

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2016, 01:14:16 pm »

Why not add rape and child molestation into the game too?

I don't want that, do you?  ::)
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2016, 06:54:37 pm »

Before the whole "prostitution opens the way to dorf molestion" discussion gets out of hand I would point out that Ultima (played by Toady and Threetoe and no doubt an inspirational work) had simple prostitution (in VI and VII at least, possibly V too) so it's not completely unthinkable.

But still, everything in DF gets researched to ensure highly detailed implementation so it really depends on whether Toady's at all interested in that part of history (and whether they regard 'prostitute' as a standard fantasy trope). As pointed out on another thread, URR is the 'social and political reality' focussed roguelike. Would be strange to not have prostitutes in that, wheras in DF they probably wouldn't be missed.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 06:58:37 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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crazyabe

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2016, 07:14:14 pm »

What about when your fort is visited by a nudist adventurer? Does everyone run over to press spare clothing upon the poor soul (an easy mechanic to abuse, if you like selling clothing), or do they lock him in a room with some sheep
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« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 07:17:06 pm by crazyabe »
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hops

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2016, 07:35:23 pm »

There's absolutely no chance of a puritan like Toady to implement this.
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JesterHell696

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2016, 10:11:17 pm »

I seriously doubt it. Toady generally won't touch any topic like that.

I would have agreed once but then Toady removed breeding by spores, added sexuality and a personality value called lust propensity so its possible...

Considering that dwarves never mate with ANYONE other than their legally-married spouse (indeed, they never even show any interest in doing so), any would-be prostitute in a dwarven community would quickly find themselves looking for another job.

Dwarves also use to breed by spores but Toady changed that, he also added a personality value called lust propensity and added in homosexuality so he's obviously though about the place that sexual activity has in the DF setting or he would have left them breeding by spores, there is also the changes he did to alcohol which enable dwarves to get drunk and die of alcohol poisoning which was a big change to how dwarven culture works lore wise.

Also there more then just dwarves to consider, you've got humans, goblins, kobolds and the vast verity of animal men, I find it hard to believe that Toady will apply total monogamy to all of them.

On a related note, what would / should a dwarven community do when a person of such vastly different beliefs enters their town, and proceeds to advertise their lascivious intent? Immediately banish them? Punish them first? Grudgingly tolerate them? What about when your fort is visited by a nudist adventurer? Does everyone run over to press spare clothing upon the poor soul (an easy mechanic to abuse, if you like selling clothing), or do they lock him in a room with some sheep wool & a loom, not letting him out until he conforms to their standards of decency?

I find it funny that your fine with hypothesizing about dwarven reactions to non-conformity but not about how there are other races and with values drift caused by the scholars system that dwarves could end up having prostitutes, remember toady added a lust propensity value to the personality system.

As it stand now nudity is only a problem for the nudist but I can see that changing when the justice ark is being done, much like how I can see the total monogamy being changed at the same time.

For those who are apparently unaware. Dwarves are not the only playable race in this game. That said, until standard adventurer sex and romance is implemented it's not likely to happen.

Well said.

Wait until the economy release and even then don't hold your breath as it'll probably come down to, "Hey Zach, what does prostitution add to the game?", "Hmmm. Nothing?" "Right, let's move on to goblin-ball and arena games. Gotta finish that before the 30th anniversary celebrations".

It can add lots of things, within a culture it can be the cause of contention between different religions or philosophical sects, there is some evidence that there was a practices of "sacred" prostitution (what better way to worship the god/goddess of fertility?) at one point and Catholics oppose prostitutes so there's evidence a battle between theists, then there the fact that in some cultures prostitute where a rather high class thing and they influenced the court proceedings and acted as agents/spies...

Also remember that Toady added a lust propensity value to the personality system, why add that if its never going to do anything?

That being said I don't think sex will be touched upon until the justice ark when there can be laws for and against what's "right" within a culture.

Why not add rape and child molestation into the game too?

That a pretty large leap... that being said maybe that why goblins are child snatchers? they do have a tag in the RAW's that label them as EVIL and I can't think of much more "evil" then child molestation and rape and given that Toady like his historical presidence there's a lot of that for rape and there still child marriages in some part of the world today so...

Before the whole "prostitution opens the way to dorf molestion" discussion gets out of hand I would point out that Ultima (played by Toady and Threetoe and no doubt an inspirational work) had simple prostitution (in VI and VII at least, possibly V too) so it's not completely unthinkable.

exactly, its not impossible and the suggestion forum is the place to discuss the implementation of these type of ideas.

But still, everything in DF gets researched to ensure highly detailed implementation so it really depends on whether Toady's at all interested in that part of history (and whether they regard 'prostitute' as a standard fantasy trope). As pointed out on another thread, URR is the 'social and political reality' focussed roguelike. Would be strange to not have prostitutes in that, wheras in DF they probably wouldn't be missed.

I think its funny that you don't think that DF will try and simulate the 'social and political reality' of a fantasy world because I think that's part what the end goal is.

There's absolutely no chance of a puritan like Toady to implement this.

Puritan? he's added homosexuality and a personality value called lust propensity neither of which fit this "puritan" idea, I think its more likely then not that it will be added before version 1.0.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Prostitution
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2016, 10:40:25 pm »

Oh, I don't think it's impossible that it'll be implemented. He's already discussed regular sex and seduction seriously so it's not unthinkable as I said. I just don't think it's a big gaping hole that needs to be filled.
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