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[Putnam]

"About as full of stuff to do as in Skyrim, assuming that there's about the same about of stuff to do as in Skyrim."

That's not what I said.

wait okay lemme break this down

Yeahhhh... Just as empty as Skyrim assuming the same density of stuff to do.

Just as empty as Skyrim: as much content as Skyrim.

Assuming the same density of stuff to do: as much content as Skyrim/m².

So yeah, it's not exactly what you said, since "density of stuff to do" implies "per square meter"

[Oneir]

I really hope this lives up to the early hype, not just because that'll make it a great game in its own right (albeit one I'll need to buy a new console to play...) but because of what it might do to the other copy-cat games in related genres. If Nintendo can actually hit this out of the park, there could be a lot of cool ripples in RPGs, Minecraftbuts...all kinds of fantasy whatsits.

(I totally sympathize on the PC-port front. You'd think the Mario guys would have more of an investment in pipe dreams.)

[Parsely]

Sure.

Just as empty as Skyrim: as much content as Skyrim.

If there is the same density of stuff to do, but the total world size is bigger, there will be more total stuff to do, but it will feel just as empty, which is what sucked about playing Skyrim. I already said this once:

The problem with Skyrim wasn't the lack of interesting things to do, but how far apart they were. Hiking to get somewhere should be fun. In vanilla Skyrim there's little to see between destinations. But this game looks like it's going to have some much more interesting ways to travel than just walking or fast-traveling.

[Egan_BW]

Yeah, but density of things to do and feel of emptiness have never stopped being the same thing. If it feels empty, it will, indeed, feel empty. If there's not much stuff to do/m², then the density of things to do will be low. If Nintendo don't make much to do in the space, it'll feel like there's not much to do in the space. If the game is like Skyrim, it will be like Skyrim.

[TheBronzePickle]

There does seem to be a lot of distance you need to cross to get to various objectives, but at the same time it looks like they've tried to make the traveling part interesting enough that it's not awful to wander around. The one complaint I'd make about the traveling is that your sprint stamina seems to be frustratingly low, but they do seem to have a few ways to travel fast without sprinting, so it's not all bad.

[Ozyton]

They do seem to have a few ways to travel fast without sprinting, so it's not all bad.

I forsee people hoarding shields to use as disposable snowboards.

[Parsely]

Yeah, but density of things to do and feel of emptiness have never stopped being the same thing.If it feels empty, it will, indeed, feel empty. If there's not much stuff to do/m², then the density of things to do will be low.

If Nintendo don't make much to do in the space, it'll feel like there's not much to do in the space.

In Skyrim they didn't want you to move quickly. Sprinting and the Whirlwind Sprint shout didn't help much. No athletics stat so no athletics boosting or similar potions, horses are slow, loading for fast travel is slow. In this game there are more interesting ways to get around. It's a fact that Link can move faster than you can in Skyrim, so I put it to you that assuming there is the same density of stuff, that the game will feel less empty if you're reaching your destination in either a quicker or more entertaining way.

Yes, but that's not what we're talking about. If Nintendo makes the game as dense with things to do as Skyrim then they will be making 14 times as much stuff to do. I'm not talking about how much there is to do, but how much fun you're having getting to those quests. That was my complaint with Skyrim that I am now apprehensive of with regard to this new Zelda title.

[Putnam]

Okay, I'm proposing a unit for things to do in an open-world game: the howard, in honor of Todd Howard, who really seems to like talking about stuff to do. We can now refer to "howards" instead of "stuff to do", and "howards/meters²" for stuff-to-do-density.

The howard also provides us with convenient methods of describing how well a game respects your hard drive space and/or time; howards/second well describes how well a game respects your time and howards/byte your hard drive space.

[Egan_BW]

Using square meters for thing-density seems flawed, though. A space game would appear to have very low howards/meter³, while a game where you play as a microbe would appear very high. This has to be relative to the player's size and movement speed.

[TheBronzePickle]

Howards/meters/second.

[Putnam]

Howards/pu² as stuff density when traveling, howards/s when actually playing (for fast travel).

[TheBronzePickle]

Of course, this also ignores the potential for the player's speed of travel to change as they progress through the game. For instance, Link can only really shieldboard down slopes, so that function of travel is limited but provides a much higher speed when used, and Epona (or whatever the horse's name is going to be, if it's given a name) is also available for what is presumably an even bigger boost in speed, but she's probably kind of useless for scaling cliffs, which Link himself is now capable of.

[Krevsin]

I mean the Howards/m² is a pretty daft way of measuring things. After all, Morrowind had pretty low Howards/m² but they made up for it by making the environments interesting. Besides which, you can find most Howards/m² in cities and towns in any game (For example in Gothic where there were very few Howards/m² outside the settled camps), which was apparently not in the E3 demo of this game (but they will be in the finished product).

It's not about having the most Howards/m², that just makes the game feel bloated and filled with boring, repetitive sidequests (see: assassin's creed games/any Ubisoft sandbox), it's about how they're placed in the world. Having high Howards/m² in certain areas while having virtually no Howards/m² in some areas makes the world far more interesting than a consistent number of Howards/m² everywhere.

Howards/m².

[Furtuka]

There's some sort of giant creature that can be seen climbing up and down Death Mountain each day.

[SOLDIER First]

The Legend of Zelda: Hype of the Wild