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Author Topic: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France  (Read 7045 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2016, 10:07:21 am »

I'm not sure. Radical seems pretty redundant there, I've never heard of a moderate militant Islamic terrorist.
Totally Lame Islamic Terrorism
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Cthulhu

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2016, 10:38:11 am »

For example, a typical ISIS member could be described as a militant radical Islamic terrorist and none of that description is redundant,

I'm not sure. Radical seems pretty redundant there, I've never heard of a moderate militant Islamic terrorist.

Even the totally chill Muslims I know around town will say some pretty unsettling things when you get them to talk candidly.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2016, 11:11:29 am »

You could even argue he's not a terrorist, but an enemy combatant. France is at war with IS. He did not target random civilians, he attacked police officers, which are a fringe case of 'legit target' in time of war (although the wife apparently had only an administrative job with the police, so she probably counts as a civilian)
You cannot be at war with a non-state Martinuzz.

Hollande disagree with you though.

George W. Bush and Barack Obama as well. Ever hear of the "war on terror?" :V
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Neonivek

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2016, 11:39:03 am »

Hey how is this War on Terror? :P

Can't go any worse then the war on drugs... What was that? It is going worse then that? Well watcha know.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2016, 11:49:22 am »

I don't know about that. We're losing how many people to overdoses now? I think we're losing way more than we are to terrorism in the US.
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Morrigi

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2016, 12:23:30 pm »

For example, a typical ISIS member could be described as a militant radical Islamic terrorist and none of that description is redundant,

I'm not sure. Radical seems pretty redundant there, I've never heard of a moderate militant Islamic terrorist.

Even the totally chill Muslims I know around town will say some pretty unsettling things when you get them to talk candidly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEMHKO5MC6c&feature=youtu.be
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Frumple

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2016, 12:30:37 pm »

I don't know about that. We're losing how many people to overdoses now? I think we're losing way more than we are to terrorism in the US.
Eh. Terrorism in major countries has kinda' never been an actual, y'know, material threat of any meaningful magnitude. Stateside example, we could be tanking the death toll of the 9/11 attacks (bit shy of 3k) daily and still have a positive population growth -- we gain a bit over 7k population per day (net gain of one person every twelve seconds, heh). Or the combined fatalities of the iraq and afghan invasions (~6.8k). Not even remotely a perfect measure, but it gets the point across, methinks.

Meanwhile, yeah, drugs are reaping a fair few, stateside. More than both things mentioned above combined and multiplied a bit, only, y'know, per year instead of over several. Can check th'numbers on terrorism related deaths y'self, but they're a... lot lower. A lot, a lot lower.

... that said, stateside concerns aren't exactly the most relevant to a discussion primarily involving france.
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Sonlirain

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2016, 12:58:42 pm »

For example, a typical ISIS member could be described as a militant radical Islamic terrorist and none of that description is redundant,

I'm not sure. Radical seems pretty redundant there, I've never heard of a moderate militant Islamic terrorist.

Even the totally chill Muslims I know around town will say some pretty unsettling things when you get them to talk candidly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEMHKO5MC6c&feature=youtu.be
Pretty much what i was saying in the deleted thread about bullshit happening in Qatar.
Well some countries decided to not give a shit anymore.
http://muslimnews.co.uk/newspaper/islamophobia/upsurge-in-islamophobia-in-poland/
Quote
In 2015, soon after the opening of the newly built Warsaw mosque, pigs’ heads were thrown into it. Mosques in Poznań, Gdańsk and Białystok have all been plastered with Islamophobic graffiti in recent years.
http://www.cafebabel.co.uk/society/article/krakow-a-portrait-of-islamophobia-in-poland.html
Quote
"over two-fifths of Poles (44%) express a cold attitude, while only a quarter (23%) have warm feelings towards them.” An absurd position, especially in Krakow, a city of 761,000 inhabitants among whom just few hundreds are Muslims.
No wonder that only one-eighth of adults (12%) personally know at least one Muslim. In addition, according to the research the majority of respondents associated Islam with violence: 57% think that this religion encourages violent actions.
"Something is going seriously wrong," explains a local Amnesty activist who prefers to remain anonymous, "and the scariest thing is that the Holocaust was perpetuated just 60 kilometres from here."
I love how a poll showing negative sentiment towards muslims got instantly linked to the fucking Holocaust because poles are obviously preparing to throw muslims into the ovens following the example of their former German occupants who did the same but with Jews.

I really wonder who will end up being right in the history books.
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Neonivek

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2016, 01:02:07 pm »

I love how a poll showing negative sentiment towards muslims got instantly linked to the fucking Holocaust because poles are obviously preparing to throw muslims into the ovens following the example of their former German occupants who did the same but with Jews.

I really wonder who will end up being right in the history books.

In all fairness... it is getting pretty bad in Poland.
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Flying Dice

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2016, 01:05:03 pm »

For example, a typical ISIS member could be described as a militant radical Islamic terrorist and none of that description is redundant,

I'm not sure. Radical seems pretty redundant there, I've never heard of a moderate militant Islamic terrorist.
Eh, there's almost certainly some out there. You don't exactly have to have extremist beliefs to engage in a terrorism campaign, and it's pretty likely there's been a number of folks that were otherwise moderate people that engaged in terrorist attacks against an invading force or particularly despotic government. When you're dealing with an extremely asymmetric force situation it... really is pretty close to the only way to do something approaching significant damage. Or at least acts that are completely indistinguishable from terrorism save an arbitrary relabeling based on target.
There's that, and there's also that "radical" is a modifier of "Islamic" rather than "terrorist", just as "militant" is. Radical in that they espouse extreme fringe views, militant in that they push their perspective aggressively, and terroristic in that their radicalism and militancy are expressed through political violence rather than other channels.

--

Take, for example, a member of the WBC. They're radical militant Christians, but they're not terrorists. Their interpretation of Christianity is radical, their support for and expression of it is militant, but they use methods other than terrorism to pursue their goals. Then look at, say, a fairly moderate member of a mainline Protestant denomination. Their views likely aren't radical, their adherence to and propagation of their faith likely isn't particularly militant, and they don't engage in terrorist acts to support it. Or a member of a Southern Baptist congregation. Their views probably aren't too radical, but there's a good chance that they're much more militant than other Protestants, though they still aren't terrorists unless they're doing stuff like bombing Planned Parenthood clinics.

So both ISIS and the WBC are collections of massive dickheads radical, militant members of their respective faiths. Incidentally, this is a large part of why (for those of you who wonder why people care more about Muslims being bigoted assholes with Bronze Age ethical values) Islam gets a lot more heat than Christianity or Judaism from agnostics and atheists. Extreme fringe Christianity is generally people being total cunts to other people for no good reason interspersed with rare bits of spontaneous or (even more rarely) planned violence on the individual level. Extreme fringe Judaism is, in addition to the above, the Zionist shitheads conducting ethnic cleansing over in Israel and blocking international action to stop it: relatively few in number, in a small area, and (let's be honest here) not something likely to endanger Western commentators. Extreme fringe Islam is fucking terrorist attacks and beheadings, pedophilia, marital rape, and active sectarian violence.

That's why, as an atheist, I care more about Islam than the other Abrahamic faiths. Because, by and large, the Christians and Jews have been socialized enough by secular civilization that they don't really engage in that sort of barbarism any more. It's mostly in the past, and unless you're in the business of guilt-tripping people for the actions of their ancestors *cough*SJWs*cough*, that's where it stays. The bigotry and dehumanizing occurs predominantly through speech and social interactions: still a damned serious issue, but for the most part people aren't being literally murdered for having differences of opinion the way they were back in the early 1600s or whatever.
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Sonlirain

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2016, 01:08:17 pm »

I love how a poll showing negative sentiment towards muslims got instantly linked to the fucking Holocaust because poles are obviously preparing to throw muslims into the ovens following the example of their former German occupants who did the same but with Jews.

I really wonder who will end up being right in the history books.

In all fairness... it is getting pretty bad in Poland.
In more fairness i'm white and would rather have to deal with white supremacists than this shit.
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Sheb

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2016, 01:20:13 pm »


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEMHKO5MC6c&feature=youtu.be

As far as I could find number, only 14% of Norwegian Muslims support Shariah law. No idea how that translate into support for actually killing gays, since what people mean by Shariah isn't always clear.
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Frumple

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2016, 01:21:56 pm »

Extreme fringe Christianity is generally people being total cunts to other people for no good reason interspersed with rare bits of spontaneous or (even more rarely) planned violence on the individual level.
In the western nations, anyway. Shit's a bit different in some other areas of the world. Do have to remember there actually are some pretty vicious christian extremist groups out there murdering and  raping and all that other good stuff. They just don't get as much news coverage in the west for various reasons.
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Sonlirain

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2016, 01:32:38 pm »

Extreme fringe Christianity is generally people being total cunts to other people for no good reason interspersed with rare bits of spontaneous or (even more rarely) planned violence on the individual level.
In the western nations, anyway. Shit's a bit different in some other areas of the world. Do have to remember there actually are some pretty vicious christian extremist groups out there murdering and  raping and all that other good stuff. They just don't get as much news coverage in the west for various reasons.
Probably because they aren't blowing shit up in europe or USA.
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Frumple

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Re: Jihadi stabs Police Officer in France
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2016, 01:36:05 pm »

Among other reasons, yeah. The religious affiliation, the people being targeted by 'em, political/economic importance of the regions they're acting in, etc., etc., etc. Likely even frequency and scope and whatnot. Pretty unlikely it's just one thing leading to the relative lack of coverage.
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