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[Armok]

It'd better not!

And if time paradoxes are really possible then either
1) I know more physics than you
or 2) the laws of that universe differs not only in physics and magic, but also in very basic logic
Because TIME PARADOXES ARE NOT POSSIBLE, by definition Blitukus cant prevent any thing that prevents the preventing.

Even if it IS possible it must be HORIBLE for the universe, and a MAIN GOAL for it to prevent, non paradoxal time travel don't brother universes at all...
I actually imagined the thing the universe wanted from Blitukus WAS to prevent paradoxes.

300:t post!  

This story is still pure genius!

[AlanL]

Actually there will be no paradoxes involved. In fact, I forgot the name of it but there's this theory that's been stated about a way the universe prevents paradoxes that I'm going to be using. In fact, I already subtly pointed out that it would cause a paradox if he did change the event. Don't worry, I'm not going to do something blatantly wrong like that    :p

(spoiler)
The trick is a little QM exploit that I'm using to allow for big rewrites of the timeline. I wasn't quite sure on how to explain it at first, but I just got done watching the movie "What the Bleep: Down the Rabbit hole", and I think I'll use some ideas I had while watching it. Those ideas are technically not possible (I think) but that's less blatant than a straight paradox (really to most it would be more of a technicality). The end, however, has nothing to do with demons or changing the event.
(/spoiler)

(To be honest I probably just overreacted when I saw you call him stupid, which was probably a joke anyway     :p)

Edit: Sheesh... this must be among the biggest story threads.

[ November 24, 2007: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[Armok]

quote:Originally posted by AlanL:
<STRONG>Actually there will be no paradoxes involved. In fact, I forgot the name of it but there's this theory that's been stated about a way the universe prevents paradoxes that I'm going to be using. In fact, I already subtly pointed out that it would cause a paradox if he did change the event. Don't worry, I'm not going to do something blatantly wrong like that      
...wait that does mean there is no way to escape his and his mothers souls from being eaten!  
 

quote:Originally posted by AlanL:
<STRONG>
(spoiler)
The trick is a little QM exploit that I'm using to allow for big rewrites of the timeline. I wasn't quite sure on how to explain it at first, but I just got done watching the movie "What the Bleep: Down the Rabbit hole", and I think I'll use some ideas I had while watching it. Those ideas are technically not possible (I think) but that's less blatant than a straight paradox (really to most it would be more of a technicality). The end, however, has nothing to do with demons or changing the event.
(/spoiler)
</STRONG>

Eh... What? I don't think I understand that English, I'm no native speaker. Explain.
 

quote:Originally posted by AlanL:
<STRONG>
(To be honest I probably just overreacted when I saw you call him stupid, which was probably a joke anyway      
Edit: also his... entry in the other story isen't what I would call a subtitle and hard to find HINT that there will be time travel.  :roll:

[ November 24, 2007: Message edited by: Armok ]

[AlanL]

His entry in the first story wasn't meant to be a subtle hint, it was meant to be there to open the possibility of it happening. She was drunk at the time, so at the time it was only a possibility, but as you can see, the chances of it happening are approaching 100% as the second story goes on  :p

(very spoily)
Ok, well in short, the universe does things all in chaos and probabilities when nobody's looking. Every now and then a WTF-class ridiculously improbable event will happen, say, you vanishing and rematerializing on the other side of the room. I was thinking of this as a workaround for a paradox, basically, when you look at something the probabilities all fall into one solution... the trick is that one solution gets propagated back in time... so, here's the spoily part. Say Blitukus were entirely removed from observing the world, and 'frozen', meaning to him the world is all probabilities. Say the entire past got purged... meaning the timeline where his mother lived became a probability. If that probability became true when Blitukus were to observe the world next, then not only would his mother still be around, but all events preceeding it would be reformed from probability... in essence it would fundamentally rewrite time all at once, eliminating both ends of time travel simultaneously (no time travel and no need for time travel), and since there would be no ends left, no paradox would occur.

Ok, maybe I need to restate that more concisely XD

A paradox happens when a time traveller intervenes to prevent his own time travel, it's the intervention that causes the paradox. A quantum event would get rid of both the time travel and the intevention simultaneously... there would be no intervention-from-nowhere to cause a paradox.

It's not really THAT relevant though... the ending doesn't involve it.

And no, neither he nor his mother get eaten by the demon either... in fact, the demon would become kind of irrelevant at the end.
(/spoily)

[ November 24, 2007: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[Reign on your Parade]

We now are obligated to state this quote. YOU NEVER EVER EVER MAKE A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL.

[AlanL]

I noticed you refer to yourself as a collective "we". Who are you collaborating with?  :p

[AlanL]

Ok, sorry to double post, but I've come upon something that's not good at all. My hacking didn't work... luckily I have a proper backup, but the adamantine might tend to be 'hidden under stuff' if I can't find a way to do away with the too-deep screen. Any hints? It's not a big deal if it can't be fixed, although this likely means I won't have time to do an update today (I really should've done this test earlier...)

Edit:
-Just ran through a no-edits control test to see if I was starting headed to the too-deep, and it didn't too-deep me. This is good news, it means the story is in no danger whatsoever, and I have inadvertently created the ideal conditions to test for the proper way to adamantine hack.

[ November 24, 2007: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[Reign on your Parade]

As the king of parades, We refer to ourselves as the royal We about half the time.

[AlanL]

I see.

Right now I'm seeing if locking the values early can get rid of the too-deeping. If that doesn't work I'll try to find some kind of chance value, and if that turns up empty... well, I guess the adamantine in the story won't be in the game. It wouldn't really much matter though since I can memory-edit in the parts that are supposed to be adamantine for the pictures.

[Reign on your Parade]

Good. If negativeness were to happen to this story, subjects would be punished.

[Armok]

quote:Originally posted by AlanL:
<STRONG>
(very spoily)
Ok, well in short, the universe does things all in chaos and probabilities when nobody's looking. Every now and then a WTF-class ridiculously improbable event will happen, say, you vanishing and rematerializing on the other side of the room. I was thinking of this as a workaround for a paradox, basically, when you look at something the probabilities all fall into one solution... the trick is that one solution gets propagated back in time... so, here's the spoily part. Say Blitukus were entirely removed from observing the world, and 'frozen', meaning to him the world is all probabilities. Say the entire past got purged... meaning the timeline where his mother lived became a probability. If that probability became true when Blitukus were to observe the world next, then not only would his mother still be around, but all events preceeding it would be reformed from probability... in essence it would fundamentally rewrite time all at once, eliminating both ends of time travel simultaneously (no time travel and no need for time travel), and since there would be no ends left, no paradox would occur.

Ok, maybe I need to restate that more concisely XD

A paradox happens when a time traveller intervenes to prevent his own time travel, it's the intervention that causes the paradox. A quantum event would get rid of both the time travel and the intevention simultaneously... there would be no intervention-from-nowhere to cause a paradox.

It's not really THAT relevant though... the ending doesn't involve it.

And no, neither he nor his mother get eaten by the demon either... in fact, the demon would become kind of irrelevant at the end.
(/spoily)

[ November 24, 2007: Message edited by: AlanL ]</STRONG>

Then we are on the same side!
It seems great mind thinks alike! (or just reads the same books)
So, basically he is going to need something that affects quantum probability, kind of like the improbability drive in the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy?

I wonder if we even have the same idea on how shuts a devise would work using a button that cannot be pressed because it would unavoidably cause a paradoxis and thus blackmailing the universe to do as the owner wants because it otherwise the owner preses the button and this can't logically happen so in practice the owner is granted control over quantum probability?

Good luck whit the addie hacking! You and this story are truly Beyond Quality.

Edit: Maybe I need to phrase this a bit clearer; As a paradoxis is logically impossible, the universe prevents them from happening by setting all probabilities involving a paradoxis to zero, by having a button or other devise that causes a paradoxis if X doesn't happen, all probabilities that does not result in X will cause a paradoxis, thus are zero, and thus the probability of X are 1, please comment and point out faults in my logic before I discover them the hard way and fry the universe.

Also doesn't what you are saying just mean that this story just can't have happened?

[ November 25, 2007: Message edited by: Armok ]

[AlanL]

What I'm thinking of is kind of like the infinite improbability drive, but not quite. Maybe I can represent it as ascii art      :p

code:

Probability of (Chain of Events): 85%
True by probability.
|(chain of events)---Event--------------------Traveller-| No Paradox
                     (change)<-------------------\
|(chain of events)---Event-----------------------Traveller-| No paradox
Event forced false by intervention
   
                      (Change)<------?
|(chain of events)---No Event-------------No Traveller-| Change has no origin, causing a paradox
So that doesn't work.
Now, say we somehow reopen that 85% chance again...
Probability of (Chain of Events): 85%
False by probability.
|(different chain of events)---No Event--------------No Traveller-|

By reforming the preceding chain of events by probability, no direct intervention is required. This leaves no open ends, and thus, say there was a chance the crossbowmen would've gotten cought by guards before entering the castle. What if that was reopened as a probability wave, and then collapsed where they DID get busted? No direct intervention would be required, no open ends would be left, and no paradox would happen. In essence, the continuum of time would edit itself, rather than be edited by someone else. A new chain of events would emerge where not only did Blitukus not 'push the button', the flow of time doesn't require him to. Of course, this would erase the entire story from existence in that universe. It's not what happens, the end relies on something entirely else (spoily: albeit, using the same device for a different purpose)

Edit: To be honest, I would be surprised if we did have the same ideas on this stuff, since much of it is theoretical and, at least to me, open to multiple interpretations.

[ November 25, 2007: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[Reign on your Parade]

No... time doesn't work like that either.

Time is set in stone. Even the future is set in stone, but nobody has the knowledge to figure out what it is.

You go back in time, and chances are you will CAUSE the event you wanted to change to begin with.
Let's say for example, that you go back in time stop Abraham Lincoln from being killed. You tackle the guy who's gonna shoot him, but what you DON'T know is that he wasn't planning on killing lincoln that day, he was just checking for the future. So now he thinks he's been caught, and goes and shoots Lincoln ahead of schedule. And you feel like an idiot.

[AlanL]

quote:Originally posted by Reign on your Parade:
<STRONG>Time is set in stone. Even the future is set in stone, but nobody has the knowledge to figure out what it is.</STRONG>

The whole point I'm using from QM is that the universe is actually not deterministic... as in neither the past nor the future are set in stone. Classical mechanics say things like that are set in stone, but classical mechanics doesn't work for things dealing with these subjects.

[ November 25, 2007: Message edited by: AlanL ]

[Zironic]

The problem is this: If you go back in time to do something and do it, and then it will change the future. Thus you will never go back in time - you have no reason to or you don't exist, reseting the future again so you do go back in time.

Now if you were able to go back in time and make sure you would find out that you ( in present) would know what you did in the past so you can go back and do it, thus to break the loop, then there would be no paradox, just a slinky in which you would go back in time and then move on having already made sure you know that uoi did. Unless, according to your fiction, you remember the changes that happen at a point of change.