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Author Topic: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!  (Read 90535 times)

Whatsifsowhatsit

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #90 on: July 15, 2016, 08:44:19 am »
Thank you very much for your ideas; I'll see whether any of these work out.

By _ISLANDS world gens, do you just mean "LARGE ISLAND" and "MEDIUM ISLAND" and so on under "Design New World with Advanced Parameters"? I have tried those, but I do tend to get kind of a single island. It rather looks like multiple islands kinda connected with stringy appendages, I suppose. Example. If you mean something else, chances are I haven't tried it; I'm rather a noob with the details and using the raws and mods and all that.

(They also just do not have enough water—is it the "Minimum Initial Ocean Square Count" option that determines this? I don't really see an effect of changing that value, and if I increase it too much, it just starts rejecting all worlds it tries.)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 08:45:54 am by Whatsifsowhatsit »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #91 on: July 15, 2016, 09:24:59 am »
Yeah, I meant that one. The minimum x counts, outside of volcanism, good and evil, are rejection criteria rather than world modification. It'll just trash worlds till it generates one that fits - which may be never, depending on parameters/requirement.

And yeah, the result that you posted is typical - one big and few smaller. Can't really change that much - at most, I think you could remove peaks/mountains requirements and decrease max elevation (though at least 300 is needed to get mountains for dwarves to start on) to make it more watery - still, the overall result won't be much different.

Thus, the need for perfect world/world painter.
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Whatsifsowhatsit

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #92 on: July 15, 2016, 10:02:49 am »
Right, I see. It's a shame you can't get this sort of result more easily in the vanilla program, especially considering that a world with several larger continents is a pretty natural thing! Even so, at least there are ways to get it working, kind of. Thank you again for thinking along.
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MehMuffin

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2016, 02:34:54 pm »
Quote from: vjek on July 14, 2016, 06:41:48 pm
Sure, it's this one:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fair warning though, I have no idea if the world, civs or embark are viable. :)  You may have to adjust a fair bit to get it to be 'fun'.

Ooh, thanks, I'll probably try that next. In the meantime, I started a fort in this desert:

Quote from: vjek on June 17, 2016, 02:50:19 pm
Put together this world for some 43.03 testing.
It's a PSV world, but it's got some nice features..

all races as neighbors on embark.
magma forges could be build on Z_72, embark is Z_100
caverns (no water) from Z_79 to Z_75
HFS/Candy available
magnetite/lignite/dolomite in first three stone layers (steel friendly)
many gold veins above the caverns
300+ emeralds (value 40) plus 18 more value 20 gems
tiny aquifer in NW corner, source of fresh water, trivial to access/secure
joyous wilds surroundings
sand desert biome, clay available
a few surface trees (feather, saguaro , highwood)
seven underground tree types in the caverns (bloodthorn, nether cap, more)
after embark, designated a tavern on the surface, no structures, immediately had three dwarven/human bards visiting & petitioning to stay in the next season. so many petitions and visitors!
elven caravan, dwarven caravan, both show up
competent/adequate musicians/poets on embark.
Goblins show up, in force, immediately after pop_cap was met (in my case, 80) in the second year.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's been pretty awesome so far, apart from a flock of giant buzzards flying down the stairs.
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #94 on: July 17, 2016, 09:19:13 pm »
I was working on a new river canyon PSV for a larger world, and accidentally made a world with this embark:
Yes, that's a max width major river with a max(?) height sheer vertical cliff of 50z, in a 2x3 embark size.

The worldgen and embark location are here:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 01:58:04 am by vjek »
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Derro

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #95 on: July 18, 2016, 05:53:27 am »
Quote from: vjek on July 17, 2016, 09:19:13 pm
I was working on a new river canyon PSV for a larger world, and accidentally made a world with this embark:
Yes, that's a max width major river with a max(?) height sheer vertical cliff of 50z, in a 2x3 embark size.

The worldgen and embark location are here:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What does a larger embark (with both sides of the river visible) look like?
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #96 on: July 18, 2016, 09:04:46 am »
Quote from: Derro on July 18, 2016, 05:53:27 am
What does a larger embark (with both sides of the river visible) look like?
The eastern side of that embark is a sheer cliff, just like the western side of the river.  At 149Z (embark height) there is a narrow river running north to south.  It's the same as what's on the western side shown in the stonesense screenshot, just with the addition of a small river.  To the south/southeast a few tiles, it is a waterfall into the major river.
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Whatsifsowhatsit

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #97 on: July 18, 2016, 09:06:43 am »
Some number of posts ago, I was asking about the generation of worlds with natural continents, and the conclusion was that it was difficult if not impossible to achieve without external tools/elevation map drawing. However, I have found some settings in the advanced world generation that seem to result frequently—not always—in maps with several large landmasses that are disconnected, i.e. pretty much proper continents. The oceans between them are still a bit small, it seems, but for my purposes (i.e., using Dwarf Fortress to generate worlds for my fantasy stories) that's no problem, because I can just imagine they're bigger.

The main breakthrough was lowering the values for X- and Y-variance for elevation. If these values are too high, you go from very low elevation (ocean) to higher elevation too quickly, and so it is likely that oceans are quite narrow in the X-direction, for example, such that some ways further up or down in the Y-direction, there is just a land connection available between two would-be continents (or vice versa). I also toyed a bit with minimum ocean count tiles (which means the rejection count does go up into the several hundreds typically before it finds something, but it does indeed find something in the end), as well as weighted ranges for elevation, and some other things I may have forgotten, but I believe the elevation variance was the main contributor to my relative success. I am still experimenting with better values, but here are some examples of worlds that have been generated so far to give you an idea of how they look:

Continents 1
Continents 2
Continents 3

I picked some of the nicer generated worlds out of my attempts; they're not always so good with very clear and proper continents. Sometimes they come out with the stringy large landmass after all, and then what more looks just like a number of large islands. Even those, however, look better, for my purposes, than the typical worlds.

Large islands 1
Large islands 2

A possible downside is that within the continents, too, there is an effect of this lower elevation variance, with fewer, larger mountain ranges, and sometimes no mountain ranges at all on some landmasses (an example of this is the top left landmass in "Continents 3"). Whether one is okay with this is of course up to the individual.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 10:00:27 am by Whatsifsowhatsit »
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Derro

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #98 on: July 18, 2016, 10:54:30 am »
Quote from: vjek on July 18, 2016, 09:04:46 am
Quote from: Derro on July 18, 2016, 05:53:27 am
What does a larger embark (with both sides of the river visible) look like?
The eastern side of that embark is a sheer cliff, just like the western side of the river.  At 149Z (embark height) there is a narrow river running north to south.  It's the same as what's on the western side shown in the stonesense screenshot, just with the addition of a small river.  To the south/southeast a few tiles, it is a waterfall into the major river.

If it's not too much asked, could you please include a picture? I'm having trouble visualizing this.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #99 on: July 19, 2016, 02:09:40 pm »
Whatsif, I really like Large Islands 2. Imma use that one!
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Whatsifsowhatsit

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #100 on: July 20, 2016, 10:29:42 am »
Oh, sure, help yourself :) but also you can generate many similar maps yourself if you adjust the parameters as I have described.
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Cows_n_Muffins

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #101 on: July 20, 2016, 09:25:37 pm »
Hey vjek, thanks for replying to me in my other thread about world generation. I messed around with the suggestions you provided, but had no luck in creating an embark location I was looking for.

Might I ask the folks on this thread to help me out in achieving my goal? I've read http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Advanced_world_generation and tried advanced world generation myself at least several dozen times, but after I made a world with 200 secrets and not a single necromancer tower appeared, I think I may be missing something. I know some of this boils down to RNG, praise be to Armok. But for anyone willing to give this a shot, this is the minimum embark conditions and world qualities I am looking for.

1. Don't limit the number of *FUN* things in the world such as titans, mega-beasts, etc... I'm not looking for a safe world, and a world without *FUN* is a world not worth living in.
2. Must have neighbors of Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Goblins, Tower.
3. Must be near a River.
4. MINERAL_SCARCITY:500 (Not sure if this has effect on civs, but it sure has an effect on me being able to build appropriate weapons to defend the fort.)
Bonus(In descending order of importance):
1. Must be in Terrifying Biome. (Or as close as possible)
2. Preferably 250 years of history. (My computer is not terrible by any means, but 0.43.03 world gen is soooooo freaking slow. Is it just me, or is anyone else experiencing this?)
3. Preferably world made of large connected islands. I like the ocean on 2 sides with poles in north and south. (This may become a problem for consistency, as civs on different islands can't neighbor. So this goes in the bonus section.)
4. DIM:129:129 (Because large world take forever to scan for embark locations.)
5. Would prefer to have at least some trees in the area.

I placed the Terrifying Biome thing as a bonus, because I know the whole Biome mechanic is hard to pin down since the Biomes "bleed" into each other when bordering, so even in Wilderness you might get attacked by Terrifying Biome wildlife if it borders you.

Basically, if someone that is a world gen pro can come up with a set of custom gen parameters that can make scary worlds semi reliably, I will ship you a cow or muffin of your choice, comprised of either muffins or cows. Thank you in advance!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 09:31:02 pm by Cows_n_Muffins »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #102 on: July 20, 2016, 09:59:35 pm »
Quote from: Cows_n_Muffins on July 20, 2016, 09:25:37 pm
2. Preferably 250 years of history. (My computer is not terrible by any means, but 0.43.03 world gen is soooooo freaking slow. Is it just me, or is anyone else experiencing this?)
4. DIM:129:129 (Because large world take forever to scan for embark locations.)
Uh, these two are confusing mix to me: Do you want slow worldgen, or a fast worldgen? The first suggests fast, but the second suggests slow :v

Anyway, the I think tricky bit here is getting lot of titans/megabeasts along with, say, lot of goblins - the latter is limited to single site for sieges, which will need a while to grow, but megabeasts can possibly slaughter them first.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 10:04:55 pm by Fleeting Frames »
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Cows_n_Muffins

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #103 on: July 20, 2016, 10:05:17 pm »
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 20, 2016, 09:59:35 pm
Quote from: Cows_n_Muffins on July 20, 2016, 09:25:37 pm
2. Preferably 250 years of history. (My computer is not terrible by any means, but 0.43.03 world gen is soooooo freaking slow. Is it just me, or is anyone else experiencing this?)
4. DIM:129:129 (Because large world take forever to scan for embark locations.)
Uh, these two are confusing mix to me: Do you want slow worldgen, or a fast worldgen? The first suggests fast, but the second suggests slow :v

Those both are more of a convenience. I'm sure someone who knows what they are doing with world gen might consider not doing either of those, and I'm fine with that. That's why they are in the bonus category. :)
So long as the 4 primary objectives are satisfied, I'm a happy Urist.
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.43.03+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #104 on: July 21, 2016, 10:07:03 am »
Quote from: Cows_n_Muffins on July 20, 2016, 09:25:37 pm
... 1. Don't limit the number of *FUN* things in the world such as titans, mega-beasts, etc... I'm not looking for a safe world, and a world without *FUN* is a world not worth living in.
2. Must have neighbors of Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Goblins, Tower.
3. Must be near a River.
4. MINERAL_SCARCITY:500 (Not sure if this has effect on civs, but it sure has an effect on me being able to build appropriate weapons to defend the fort.)
...
So, this worldgen gives you 2 & 4:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now, 1 & 3 have consequences, as I'm sure you're aware.  The first being in a pocket world, any megabeasts will wipe out most civs quite quickly.  In the world I've given you there, goblins, the tower, and whatever evil biome effects are in play + giant creatures will be your challenge.
The river I can probably do in a different worldgen, but this was what I had that was quick & easy as a demonstration.  Any terrifying embark in that world will have all those neighbors.
I should also note that reanimation or undead in general will currently lead to this bug, which can be fort ending.  For this reason, some evil embarks can be problematic for long term forts.
Expanding the size of the world while adding the other geographical features you're looking for (poles, oceans, rivers, etc) will decrease the odds of finding a suitable embark.  That's just more of a mathematics/probability thing, given the range on civs.  It will likely be necessary if you want to add megabeasts and other challenges.
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