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Author Topic: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series  (Read 3178 times)

Rogue Yun

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2016, 12:50:37 pm »

Also, I've been avoiding mining for ores simply because I don't know how to. Every fort I've had I've always gotten my ores from trading, but I want to start mining for them now. Any tips?

I hope someone gives you a better answer before I post! I don't know if I'm qualified to answer as I get most of my metal from trading as well... so the best suggestion I can offer you is to dig a lot and to dig deep.

You can practice digging in the dirt to train up your miners a bit because it is easier. Mining out large sections of dirt can be useful for farming and the like, and a well leveled miner starts cutting through rock like a hot knife through butter.

I noticed from your first video your metal deposits are deep metals (my guess is that means they are below the first cavern layer but I don't know for sure). If you open a hole into a cavern just wall it off and dig around it. If you are lucky you might see some ores that are easy to mine.

Not all ores are going to be weapon grade material... you might be very unlucky and only get zinc or nickle ores... In which case you'll have to revert to trading crafts for better materials.

I don't know if you know the names of the ores but here are some of the more common/useful ores that I tend to find with a brief description.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Sollision

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2016, 02:38:48 pm »

Also, I've been avoiding mining for ores simply because I don't know how to. Every fort I've had I've always gotten my ores from trading, but I want to start mining for them now. Any tips?

I hope someone gives you a better answer before I post! I don't know if I'm qualified to answer as I get most of my metal from trading as well... so the best suggestion I can offer you is to dig a lot and to dig deep.

You can practice digging in the dirt to train up your miners a bit because it is easier. Mining out large sections of dirt can be useful for farming and the like, and a well leveled miner starts cutting through rock like a hot knife through butter.

I noticed from your first video your metal deposits are deep metals (my guess is that means they are below the first cavern layer but I don't know for sure). If you open a hole into a cavern just wall it off and dig around it. If you are lucky you might see some ores that are easy to mine.

Not all ores are going to be weapon grade material... you might be very unlucky and only get zinc or nickle ores... In which case you'll have to revert to trading crafts for better materials.

I don't know if you know the names of the ores but here are some of the more common/useful ores that I tend to find with a brief description.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thanks a lot! I believe there's some hematite so I'll aim for that!
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2016, 03:15:10 pm »

If you dialed your mineral frequency way up in worldgen, only deep metals might also mean that you can only find blue metal due it's inverse nature (high number meaning it is rare)

Finding ores: They tend to be either in clusters (kinda like gems), misshapen and rotated v-shaped veins about 3-4 wide, or huge ovals as embark tile features (seeing 9 microcline ovals with reveal in 3x3 embark is quite striking). If you embark on a mountainous or cliffy area, you will likely see some of them in the walls at embark.

For finding them with digging, there are variety of exploratory shaft designs. Some are usable for fort layout, but for single z-level, I believe diagonals are most efficient and highest pain to designate, while multiple levels are simple to explore with downward stairs, or perhaps diagonal descending ramps (even higher pain to designate) for removing 2 tiles at once.

But I think by far my favourite thing about them is the colors, when most rock is boring dark gray, great for confusing levers. It takes time to recognize ores at glance, though, and wiki doesn't always list their native symbols in rock.
 
Now, generally, one gets more material out of melting them down and then making furniture or mechanisms directly, but if you melt down Hematite or Limonite for Iron, for instance, you get more gray on grey.

For levers of their respective colors, Garnierite, Kimberlite, Cobaltite and Lay Pewter (hey, an use for lead beyond cheap smoothie minecarts) are their only options. Tetrahedrite is pretty common in my experience, but the first 3 ores are only found as veins and are thus not necessarily always present.

Though note how that wiki table link doesn't mention background colors that will become highly visible when you make doors, hatch covers, etc., albeit Metal has an incomplete list, and wooden, glass and stone furniture don't necessarily share looks.

Here, have a goblin-cap and petrified wood (same as other red stones) door:

Sollision

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2016, 04:58:11 pm »

If you dialed your mineral frequency way up in worldgen, only deep metals might also mean that you can only find blue metal due it's inverse nature (high number meaning it is rare)

Finding ores: They tend to be either in clusters (kinda like gems), misshapen and rotated v-shaped veins about 3-4 wide, or huge ovals as embark tile features (seeing 9 microcline ovals with reveal in 3x3 embark is quite striking). If you embark on a mountainous or cliffy area, you will likely see some of them in the walls at embark.

For finding them with digging, there are variety of exploratory shaft designs. Some are usable for fort layout, but for single z-level, I believe diagonals are most efficient and highest pain to designate, while multiple levels are simple to explore with downward stairs, or perhaps diagonal descending ramps (even higher pain to designate) for removing 2 tiles at once.

But I think by far my favourite thing about them is the colors, when most rock is boring dark gray, great for confusing levers. It takes time to recognize ores at glance, though, and wiki doesn't always list their native symbols in rock.
 
Now, generally, one gets more material out of melting them down and then making furniture or mechanisms directly, but if you melt down Hematite or Limonite for Iron, for instance, you get more gray on grey.

For levers of their respective colors, Garnierite, Kimberlite, Cobaltite and Lay Pewter (hey, an use for lead beyond cheap smoothie minecarts) are their only options. Tetrahedrite is pretty common in my experience, but the first 3 ores are only found as veins and are thus not necessarily always present.

Though note how that wiki table link doesn't mention background colors that will become highly visible when you make doors, hatch covers, etc., albeit Metal has an incomplete list, and wooden, glass and stone furniture don't necessarily share looks.

Here, have a goblin-cap and petrified wood (same as other red stones) door:

Thanks a lot!
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Findulidas

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2016, 04:39:22 am »

Watched some of your clips and have some present and future advice, its general advice for beginners as well I guess:

Build beds asap, always do this on a new fort. Sleeping outside without beds is bad. Having a collection of beds perhaps nine in a corner  for dwarves without a room is adequate until you have built a room for them. Just desigante the beds as a dormitory and they will sleep there freely. It will give less of a bad thought.

Also deconstruct that wagon for few wood and designate your big dining hall as a meeting hall. The dwarves and any cats/dogs will gather there instead of outside.

When you get migrants you probably want to control that none of them is a vampire right away. Its troublesome and currently somewhat rare, but it does pay off. Specially since once you have a 120 fort it might well take 20-30 minutes or more just to read all the descriptions on dwarves and think about how likely it is each dwarf is a vampire. Plus it has probably killed once or twice already if you didnt catch it coming in. Save for savescumming you wont get those perhaps skilled dwarves back.

Golden rule: Everything that can be made out of stone should be made out of stone and nothing else. Ex: Its very easy to make furniture and barrels out of wood but this should be avoided. Stone is abundant, wood is needed for much when the metalworking starts. 

Have a central staircase and every time you mine and do something do it on a separate level. Do not add stuff on the same levels. This reduces the steps each dwarf have to take in order to get to stuff since going up/down one level only takes a step, but walking along a corridor might well take 30 or so. The same staircase will go through your entire fort. People say dwarves might fall down the stairs and die. This however only happens if someone is already fighting in your fort and then they are likely do die anyway. Besides no fighting in the fort is more or less something you always should strive for anyway.

Dont have a corridor/staircase of only one space wide thats going to be used by many at the same time. It increases FPS when the dwarves have to constantly creep under each other and wait. Plus it somewhat increases time to haul. The 3x3 staircases you have are just fine and the 3x corridors as well. The trade depot one should be expanded however.

You dont want to have idle dwarves. Granted this is difficult for beginners. 2-3 idle dwarves at any given time is fine since dwarves tend to be idle for few seconds between each task but thats it. How I handle it: Each dwarf has a specific task it should do. Always have your miners mine something out. Carpenter only does carpentry, mason only does masonry etc. Have these dwarves constantly working creating something (carpenter can of course stop if wood is scarce). Good things to have loads of are bins, doors, tables, chairs (once your legendary dining room is complete place a table and chair in each of the dwarves rooms), blocks (for dwarven projects like towers/walls, blocks save loads of time there due to stone being difficult to haul), coffers (a coffer for each dwarf room and loads for each site), spiked wooden balls (The value on these is insane. A good trade dwarf will easily take everything the merchants have for 20-30 of these made by a good carpenter), beds (each dwarf should have their own room, if they dont they get stressed), pots (more barrels are always nice). Its also good to have atleast one hauler for each dwarf on loop. In order to control that the dwarf makes the task you want you can have the haulers only do hauling and the crafters only do hauling. Mining can always be done constantly and will never cause trouble. If you feel like you have too many open mined out areas increasing fps then you can just wall them out and open them up later if needed. If you feel overwhelmed by the production just turn it off for some time.

Wood is a resource you want to have a plan for, since unless you know how to work with magma its going to get used both for fuel and various other things. Ex: beds can only be constructed out of wood. Exception being is that you want to make wooden bins since bins are incredibly useful and the quickest way to make them is through wood. Unless you are really lacking in wood bins are worth it. You do not want to make wooden barrels. Barrels are made out of stones from your stonecrafters (called pots). Exception is for the rare building that needs a barrel it in order to get built. Even if you are never going to run out of wood due to being in a dense jungle there is still going to be a lot of hauling done if you plan to use massive amounts of wood.

Have everything your dwarves are working on as close to the central staircase as possible. Granted this makes the fort much more boring so its not for everyone. However if all of your workshops/farms etc are close to the central stairs then it reduces the distance dwarves are forced to haul things by a lot.

Dwarves are dumb when it comes to where they dine. If you want a legendary dinging room that gives ecstatic happy thoughts then you need to place your food next to it. The dwarves are likely to eat at the closest spot compared to where the food is. It is smart to have a separate storage for seeds next to the farms.

Dont forget something the dwarves can drink out of. If the dwarves drink straight out of pots/barrels without jugs etc they get a bad thought. These can easily be made out of stone at stonecrafters.

You want your refuse pile to be just outside your fort entrance so that the dwarves dont have to go far. You do NOT want corpses to be stored there. Corpses should be stored at a decent distance from the fort entrance because dwarves get bad thoughts from seeing dead goblins/humans/elves/zombies. This bad thought will stack.

From the traders you specially want: books (some dwarves really like to read and making books is complex, trading for them easy), complete instruments (making instruments out of parts is somewhat annoying and you dont need many, trading for few of them completed is easy) wood (its cheap and usually quicker to haul from depot compared to anywhere else), other types of food than what you have (same food/drink as usual gives bad thoughts, cheese is good), animals (to mix up food and butcher in order to get leather/bone for strange moods+ some animals like tame cave crocodiles and tame grizzly bears are damn useful in a pinch), bars (usually cheap, good for training and whatever you can make out of them will be worth more), cloth, thread, leather (needed for bags, clothes plus its saves time to trade for this), gypsum plaster (for hospitals, very useful if you have injured dwarves), Milk (cheap and easy to make cheese out of). Do NOT trade for trap parts, sheets, barrels, bins, coffins and other similar furniture unless you really need them. They are usually overpriced and you can easily make them yourself.

Good items to create in value for trading is trap weapons (in wood or silver spiked balls are good choices), clothes (masterwork dyed clothes are worth a suprising amount), gems (easy to haul, easy to trade), armor/weapons of a inferior material (you can train your weaponsmith/armorsmith in copper items and then trade them all away).

Elves are annoying to trade with. Good things to trade with them are all your gems (save them for elves really) and clothes. Dont trade for wood weapons/armor, they really really suck. Be very careful not to include any wooden bins or similar when you trade, this will upset them.

You want to look out for dwarves that value knowledge and think it has value. These are good for being scholars. There usually are pretty few of them around. If they do not value knowledge then they are very poor scholars. If it says nothing about knowledge its fine. If they value knowledge then they are much more likely to spend their time in the libraries doing scholarly stuff. The quickest way of checking this is hovering over their names in dwarf therapist where it will be listed among the things they value/dont value.

Use wheelbarrows. Piles of non economical stone next to the stonecrafter/mason is very useful, however these will only be quicker if they have wheelbarrows. The wheelbarrows will reduce hauling time by a third. You can allow the piles to use wheelbarrows by just changing their settings. The same goes for piles with heavy furniture, ore piles next to smelters, piles with metal trap parts etc. 20 or so wheelbarrows is likely to be the most your fort really needs, but it depends on how you do your piles.

A solid fifth of your fort can be dedicated solely to farming diffrent farms, brewing, hauling only food, plant processing etc. You want to have many diffrent types of food since the same food will give your dwarves a bad thought and they pick what they eat drink at random. This means loads of plump helmets are good in the beginning but later it should just be a part of all food you have. You want to have a big pig tail farm since its by far the easiest way to get cloth. You dont want the food to rot so dedicated food haulers is a must. A skilled grower actually increases the yield by quite a lot from each plant so the farmers should do farming and not much else. The loss of a single farmer is not the end of your fort so they can easily be hauling refuse as well.
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Findulidas

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2016, 05:00:40 am »

-
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 05:31:07 am by Findulidas »
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Sollision

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2016, 09:00:20 am »

Alright. I pretty much just saved all of that to a text file and I'm going to refer to it when I'm starting again.
It's actually extremely helpful and has some points I would have never thought of (the jugs).
Thanks so much.
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Findulidas

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2016, 09:33:10 am »

Alright. I pretty much just saved all of that to a text file and I'm going to refer to it when I'm starting again.
It's actually extremely helpful and has some points I would have never thought of (the jugs).
Thanks so much.

Np, just be aware that you shouldnt deconstruct the wagon unless its empty. Strange behavior might happen and some things that should be in it might disappear.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2016, 10:28:41 am »

Clothing industry is a complicated odd-ball.
TL:DR "I want it simple and now": Order leather of every kind from caravan, next year buy it and put in "Make Leather shoe", "Make leather trousers" and "Make leather cloak" all on repeat in Leather Works Workshop.

In terms of pure value, it is far cry from metal trap components or micromanaged roast (capable of reaching 5-7 digit values per item), though per pig tail job it is can compete with simpler mass-production of stone mechanisms*. It is also quick to transport.

Still, for injuries and strange moods you will likely need at least some threads and cloths of every type.

Furthermore, once you've spent several years in fortress they'll wear out, and you will likely have˘ to use similarly complicated armoring for most of your dwarves while getting miner clothes from the caravans/sieges, order every kind of leather by bulk and have your leatherworkers do 3 jobs per dwarf per 2 years§, or have it made by clothiers from plant cloth or spider silk wholesale.

Thus, dropping hundreds of clothes on caravans in mature fortresses to save FPS (simplest to accomplish by stockpile linked to clothing output workshop(s) set to take from links only and general clothing stockpile near trade depot).

* Most of it by clothier/leatherworker. A masterful pig tail robe made from masterful pig tail cloth would be worth 1052 = 792 from Clothier + 240 by Weaver + 20 by Plant Processing and +0 by Planting and +0 by Harvesting, though the last three create multiple threads. A dyer dying the thread would add 240 for a masterful dye - not much, but it can make some dwarves happier and look prettier when dropped on floor.

˘ Each piece of worn clothing or uncovered inner body part gives substantial happiness hit. However, the latter is waived for some dwarves who don't mind being naked (them be hating decorum and perhaps politeness).

§ Full set requires 10, but you don't need double coverings other than to avoid brief nakedness¯. Shoes/socks(no conflict with armor, but clothing only), trousers and a cloak (highest covering for attacks) or robe (most valuable) is fine.

¯ Hostile floor toppings kill uncovered dwarves - make like an eskimo, or at the very least cover their hands and heads in that case.


On the No Job bit Findulidas mentions: That period can be used for dwarves to talk to each other and admire their surroundings. The new and maintained relationships will make them happier, but having friends and family become estranged or die will make them quite unhappy, which will be difference when the last 2 dwarves will work or go mad after, say, you engineer a cave-in to kill everyone they knew in your fortress.

I've found dfhack's autohauler and dwarf therapist for other jobs helpful for easily halving their numbers.

Note that if you, say, make a tavern then (u)nits will go there and Socialize (this one is mainly useful for getting visitors to become residents and giving performance-related happy thoughts).
Such make-work assignments from which they will be pulled away for real ones will give the illusion of no idlers, but that doesn't mean they're doing what you consider useful.

Wood: Technically renewable, but trees take 3 years to regrow.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 10:32:59 am by Fleeting Frames »
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Starver

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2016, 05:15:47 pm »

Posting To (indicate that I have) Watch(ed your videos).

I had meant to make notes of hints and tips, along the way, when I could see you struggling to find something, or doing something 'wrong'*, but I haven't done that yet. (My feedback would have to be here, I don't have a way to comment on Youtube itself.)

In your search for deep haematite, however, I definitely recall you having mentioned it in passing whilst digging your original fort levels. I think (hard to tell, not being used to your tileset) that you'll be able to get some from there, without needing the deep-digging.  Might spoil some of your room-layouts, but you can treat it as pre-digging future rooms, and build again to 'repair' lost bedrock that you would have normally left up as walls.

And while those elk birds are (comparatively) harmless, watch out for nastier cavern-dwellers that might wander along the same openings.

Also, for a pitting/ponding, you need a hole in the ground, dry or water-filled. Like fishing/water-getting zones, except dry as a pit.  The first 'pitting' was on flat cave floor, then you ponded correctly but luckily (for the non-aquatic creature) it was in a place it could get out again. A dry pit intended to hold a creature would have no ramps, and possibly some other details to its construction, so that pitting a captured goblin would not just allow it to walk straight out again and causing chaos... but you started with a benign creature, fortunately.

To just release a creature, I build the cage (furniture action-menu, choose the cage-item specifically containing the creature involved, as 'building materil') and then in the cage-as-a-building menu toggle off the creature's confinement, then deconstruct the cage when empty.  (If it's a dangerous creature, build cage, mechanism-link to lever, seal off from all but.any 'safe' exit and pull the lever to deconstruct cage-building remotely (pick up components when you can.)  You can also strip caged creatures of clothes/possessions when in building-cages.

Those starving creatures of yours are odd.  Are they congregating in your (stone-floored, and not yet cave-mossy) meeting area? Or trapped behind animal-impassible doors.  If you have any grazing livestock left, designate some pasture-space on the grass in the open air and assign them to those.  (There's pitfalls with that, needing finessing and other precautions, but they should at least not be dying underground like they seem to be at the moment.)

Other than that, the only things I can remember is basic confusion about job-types and availability, which you may have gotten more used to now.  (Related: at one point you were worried about getting more barrels in order to solve the lack of drink.  If they were drinking all current stocks of booze, then barrels should have been made free, it was just more brewing that you needed to do.  Unless that megastockpile was sucking up those barrels as seed-stack storage containers, but I'd have to go back and check what settings you left on that, to be sure.)


* - as in "not how I would have done it"... Which doesn't mean my approach is actually better.
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crazyabe

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Re: My Dwarf Fortress Youtube Series
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2016, 08:07:22 am »

PTW
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