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Poll

Which new (or returning) features do you want to see in Orc Fortress?

Combat magic (frost storms, rite of pain, etc.)
- 69 (27.5%)
Ritual magic (weather, timeflow, etc.)
- 53 (21.1%)
More high end industries locked by looted blueprints or trade (post ideas in thread?)
- 52 (20.7%)
GUI option to activate more nonplayable slaver civs (ashlanders, deep legion, etc.)
- 50 (19.9%)
Other (post ideas in thread?)
- 2 (0.8%)
Needs nothing, just fixes and tweaks are fine!
- 25 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 128


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Author Topic: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)  (Read 35820 times)

Amostubal

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #165 on: January 07, 2017, 10:07:46 pm »
Quote from: baldamundo on January 07, 2017, 04:57:32 pm
I would second that it'd be handy to have shorter names for orcs. Very difficult to remember who is who when they all have such long confusing names that barely fit on the screen.


I have a few questions also:
  • is there a list somewhere of which labours are used by the modded workshops? Particularly interested in the drydock, caravanserai, outpost warrior society kits, kobold headhunter, and the training workshops (bloodbowl pitch etc)
  • is there currently any use for souls?
  • has anyone worked out what the best livestock for a leather industry are? Cragtooth boars are currently looking promising, horned turtles you can't make lamellar out of (and for some reason mine aren't laying fertilised eggs...), I feel like aurochs and mumaks have a really slow growth/reproduction rate (although maybe the pay off is big enough to balance?) and need grass
  • how do you get your nobles promoted? In the legends viewer I see Orc thains, jarls and hersirs, and I'm sure I remember being promoted as an orc in previous playthroughs, but it doesn't seem to be happening this time. Pretty sure I meet the vanilla dwarf requirements for promotion

answers:
1.  They are listed in the reactions in the raw file.... the ones you mentioned:
Drydocks - siegecraft
Caravanserai - negotiation - good idea to restrict to your clanspeaker, the trader. Within a year he will be max in it if your using it regularly for selling large rock gems, etc.  (shadowbroker, freelancer, arms, farms, etc even the overseer shop is all negotiation...)  High negotiation will earn you closer deals, so your trade caravans will walk away with less and less profit.
Outposts - human/elf/dwarf - forge weapon or bowyer skill based on what the item is.  Orc outpost is based on sword, spear, or blowgun skill based on the combined weapon created.
Kobold thief - siegecraft all of them.
bloodbowl Pitch - Pass ball - Throw; Kick ball - Stance_strike; Practice coordination - coordination; Tackle the ball carrier - melee combat; Dodge as a ball carrier - Dodging.
Sparring Pit - Shield, Armor, Wrestling, Sword, Spear, Axe, Mace, Hammer as it states.
Dismembering Theatre - Dress wounds, Suture, Set bone, Surgery, diagnose, wood burning based on the what it says your doing.
2.  Souls currently have 0 uses... they count as plants and can be sold at the caravanserai shops.
3.  suggestion turn on the additional leather and standard leather mods.  makes the stacks larger per creature based on size, and gives one standardized name so you don't end up with 300 different leathers.  I never had a need for ranching to gain leathers, I kill enough to get all I need.  but If I was going to pick one.... I'd say find something that matures fast, and has large batches of children... random choices... smaller animals reproduce and mature faster, birds have larger clutches.... turtles suck in my opinion.  I'd choose a small bird, like chicken.  To get eggs to mature, make sure no food stock is set to collect eggs, and that you have at least 2 males.... I always find that if you have 1 male they suck... in a year you will have 100 chicks in a box, in 2 years 100 mature chickens and 1000 chicks.  I suggest caging chicks until they mature so they don't affect your fps...
4. Interesting.... lets see what the raws say:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So to be Great Clanfather/mother you basically have to have a successful fort in a civilization without a monarch.
Warlords and High Warlords are military leaders of a monarch, assigned by a monarch... not sure how you get to these otherwise.
jarls, hersirs, and thains are level 3 2 1 area lords - if you end up with a great clanfather you are stuck, as I've never seen one give that title to someone on his own site.

[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:1:20:10000:100000] - thain - pop 20; wealth exported 10k; wealth created 100k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:2:40:20000:200000] - hersirs - pop 40; wealth exported 20k; wealth created 200k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:3:60:30000:300000] - jarls - pop 60; wealth exported 30k; wealth created 300k   

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baldamundo

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #166 on: January 09, 2017, 08:26:30 pm »
Quote from: Amostubal on January 07, 2017, 10:07:46 pm
1.  They are listed in the reactions in the raw file.... the ones you mentioned:
Drydocks - siegecraft
Caravanserai - negotiation - good idea to restrict to your clanspeaker, the trader. Within a year he will be max in it if your using it regularly for selling large rock gems, etc.  (shadowbroker, freelancer, arms, farms, etc even the overseer shop is all negotiation...)  High negotiation will earn you closer deals, so your trade caravans will walk away with less and less profit.
Outposts - human/elf/dwarf - forge weapon or bowyer skill based on what the item is.  Orc outpost is based on sword, spear, or blowgun skill based on the combined weapon created.
Kobold thief - siegecraft all of them.
bloodbowl Pitch - Pass ball - Throw; Kick ball - Stance_strike; Practice coordination - coordination; Tackle the ball carrier - melee combat; Dodge as a ball carrier - Dodging.
Sparring Pit - Shield, Armor, Wrestling, Sword, Spear, Axe, Mace, Hammer as it states.
Dismembering Theatre - Dress wounds, Suture, Set bone, Surgery, diagnose, wood burning based on the what it says your doing.
Cheers!
I notice though that some of those are skills and not labours as I understand it. I realise that combat skills affect e.g. the quality levels of the weapon kits produced at the outpost, but is there any toggleable labour that will determine which orc will actually go and perform the reaction?

Quote
3.  suggestion turn on the additional leather and standard leather mods.  makes the stacks larger per creature based on size, and gives one standardized name so you don't end up with 300 different leathers.  I never had a need for ranching to gain leathers, I kill enough to get all I need.  but If I was going to pick one.... I'd say find something that matures fast, and has large batches of children... random choices... smaller animals reproduce and mature faster, birds have larger clutches.... turtles suck in my opinion.  I'd choose a small bird, like chicken.  To get eggs to mature, make sure no food stock is set to collect eggs, and that you have at least 2 males.... I always find that if you have 1 male they suck... in a year you will have 100 chicks in a box, in 2 years 100 mature chickens and 1000 chicks.  I suggest caging chicks until they mature so they don't affect your fps...
Honestly amazed that gets you enough leather. Murdering everything I encounter doesn't get me close to enough bones or leather (the fact I think butchering sentients is still bugged admittedly doesn't help) and I embarked on a savage biome even (I think). Even buying up every animal the caravans bring for immediate slaughter doesn't get me quite as much as I'd like. Doesn't help that the Tigermen haven't visited in some time now...Guess I'll have to try poultry, although I'm not sure how many my civ has access to. Hopefully the Tigermen will come back with something handy!


Quote
4. Interesting.... lets see what the raws say:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So to be Great Clanfather/mother you basically have to have a successful fort in a civilization without a monarch.
Warlords and High Warlords are military leaders of a monarch, assigned by a monarch... not sure how you get to these otherwise.
jarls, hersirs, and thains are level 3 2 1 area lords - if you end up with a great clanfather you are stuck, as I've never seen one give that title to someone on his own site.

[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:1:20:10000:100000] - thain - pop 20; wealth exported 10k; wealth created 100k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:2:40:20000:200000] - hersirs - pop 40; wealth exported 20k; wealth created 200k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:3:60:30000:300000] - jarls - pop 60; wealth exported 30k; wealth created 300k

Huh. Pretty sure I've had enough to meet that for a looong time now. Must be something's bugged, I guess.

And thanks for all the answers!  :)
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Amostubal

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #167 on: January 10, 2017, 07:13:26 am »
Quote from: baldamundo on January 09, 2017, 08:26:30 pm
Quote from: Amostubal on January 07, 2017, 10:07:46 pm
1.  They are listed in the reactions in the raw file.... the ones you mentioned:
Drydocks - siegecraft
Caravanserai - negotiation - good idea to restrict to your clanspeaker, the trader. Within a year he will be max in it if your using it regularly for selling large rock gems, etc.  (shadowbroker, freelancer, arms, farms, etc even the overseer shop is all negotiation...)  High negotiation will earn you closer deals, so your trade caravans will walk away with less and less profit.
Outposts - human/elf/dwarf - forge weapon or bowyer skill based on what the item is.  Orc outpost is based on sword, spear, or blowgun skill based on the combined weapon created.
Kobold thief - siegecraft all of them.
bloodbowl Pitch - Pass ball - Throw; Kick ball - Stance_strike; Practice coordination - coordination; Tackle the ball carrier - melee combat; Dodge as a ball carrier - Dodging.
Sparring Pit - Shield, Armor, Wrestling, Sword, Spear, Axe, Mace, Hammer as it states.
Dismembering Theatre - Dress wounds, Suture, Set bone, Surgery, diagnose, wood burning based on the what it says your doing.
Cheers!
I notice though that some of those are skills and not labours as I understand it. I realise that combat skills affect e.g. the quality levels of the weapon kits produced at the outpost, but is there any toggleable labour that will determine which orc will actually go and perform the reaction?
you will have to manually select people at the workshop or restrict the workshop with a burrow.  If you change the profile to only allow certain levels of skill then only an orc who has obtained that level will be able to perform the action at the shop.  Since I use autolabor a lot, this last method is my preferred restriction.  I just up the skill required (starts out as dabbling, which is basically everyone) a couple of levels every month or so and that way the characters autolabor has set to the labor(or the ones who are actively using the skill in some of these cases) will end up being the only ones using the shop, without having to set each individual orc in the profile manager.

Quote
Quote
3.  suggestion turn on the additional leather and standard leather mods.  makes the stacks larger per creature based on size, and gives one standardized name so you don't end up with 300 different leathers.  I never had a need for ranching to gain leathers, I kill enough to get all I need.  but If I was going to pick one.... I'd say find something that matures fast, and has large batches of children... random choices... smaller animals reproduce and mature faster, birds have larger clutches.... turtles suck in my opinion.  I'd choose a small bird, like chicken.  To get eggs to mature, make sure no food stock is set to collect eggs, and that you have at least 2 males.... I always find that if you have 1 male they suck... in a year you will have 100 chicks in a box, in 2 years 100 mature chickens and 1000 chicks.  I suggest caging chicks until they mature so they don't affect your fps...
Honestly amazed that gets you enough leather. Murdering everything I encounter doesn't get me close to enough bones or leather (the fact I think butchering sentients is still bugged admittedly doesn't help) and I embarked on a savage biome even (I think). Even buying up every animal the caravans bring for immediate slaughter doesn't get me quite as much as I'd like. Doesn't help that the Tigermen haven't visited in some time now...Guess I'll have to try poultry, although I'm not sure how many my civ has access to. Hopefully the Tigermen will come back with something handy!
well I also trap 10x more then I kill.  I like cage trap walls.  A favorite of mine looks something like this:
Code: [Select]
WWWWWWWWWWWC........W
W........CCC........W
W........CWWWWWWWWWWW

W= walls
C= Cage Trap
I'll have about 6 of these each side on flat 3x3. Material cost is rather low, upkeep is fast.  I often just ramp over the wall for caravan entrances at 2 to 4 points.  I generally put patrol routes and better defense walls/positions about 1/4th in from that.  Trapping brings leathers much faster, I can usually actually reach a point where trapping wipes out surface pops in a 5 years.  Plus the traps assist in invasions, catch titans, giants, etc from time to time.

great thing about caged critters, I'll train them, then pasture them, shear them, milk them, then butcher them.  Find any useful pets, breed them keep the kids(they don't loose training) eat the parents.  Pit all the stuff you can't train, I prefer an archery training facility, good luck on the design.

The worst problem I have is that I'll get a string of birds....  birds are hard to catch and waste a lot of time high on the map.  I build archer roosts usually when I have birds in enabled.  5x5 towers with fortifications on every 3rd floor, all the way to max.  1 is usually enough on a 3x3 embark, but if I have a lot of birds showing up, then 2 or 3.  generally top floor is accessable from exterior and have cage traps... birds will just land and roost up there... otherwise archer squad training... set them to kill it and they will climb up and down the towers trying to get a shot at it.
Quote
Quote
4. Interesting.... lets see what the raws say:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So to be Great Clanfather/mother you basically have to have a successful fort in a civilization without a monarch.
Warlords and High Warlords are military leaders of a monarch, assigned by a monarch... not sure how you get to these otherwise.
jarls, hersirs, and thains are level 3 2 1 area lords - if you end up with a great clanfather you are stuck, as I've never seen one give that title to someone on his own site.

[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:1:20:10000:100000] - thain - pop 20; wealth exported 10k; wealth created 100k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:2:40:20000:200000] - hersirs - pop 40; wealth exported 20k; wealth created 200k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:3:60:30000:300000] - jarls - pop 60; wealth exported 30k; wealth created 300k

Huh. Pretty sure I've had enough to meet that for a looong time now. Must be something's bugged, I guess.

And thanks for all the answers!  :)

never noticed much... I generally end up with great clanfathers... It seems every orc civ I get is so hated by everyone, that they are nearly dead by the time I start a fort.  I'm such an anarchist anyway.... I've built noble rooms with masterwork spear traps, with the doors and spear traps attached to pressure plates in the dining hall.... I've used nobles as infantry wearing leather thongs as armor....
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megahelmet

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #168 on: January 10, 2017, 12:08:29 pm »
I have a couple questions since things have changed from Orc Fortress on 34.

1. Do Orcs still have compound bows and bolas? The orc fletcher only makes arrows.

2. Do sigil blades still need ammo?

3. Do you need mojos to cast spells? I can't seem to find any mojos.

4. Anyway to force an invasion? I'm on year four and bored. Every year, the liason brings news of elven armies chasing orcs out of places. So they are still out there...somewhere.
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Quote from: Meph on February 21, 2014, 01:16:49 pm
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Weirdsound

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #169 on: January 10, 2017, 02:43:21 pm »
1. I think compound bows were taken out for being too OP. I prefer Tomahawks anyway, as they give my rangers a nasty melee attack.

2-3. Not sure. Havn't tried to mess with these things in new MDF.

4. I have the same issue. I hear the best bet is to embark right next to a hostile settlement, but eventually they should find you. I've just started getting Blendec theives at my fort, so hopefully I'll get some excitement soon.
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megahelmet

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #170 on: January 10, 2017, 04:06:28 pm »
Quote from: Weirdsound on January 10, 2017, 02:43:21 pm
1. I think compound bows were taken out for being too OP. I prefer Tomahawks anyway, as they give my rangers a nasty melee attack.

2-3. Not sure. Havn't tried to mess with these things in new MDF.

4. I have the same issue. I hear the best bet is to embark right next to a hostile settlement, but eventually they should find you. I've just started getting Blendec theives at my fort, so hopefully I'll get some excitement soon.

OOoo. Blendec's? So that means the fortress defense mods are working? I might have to start a new game with ALL of them enabled. I have dwarves, elves (at war with), humans, and succubi near me in the current fort. Only seen a single naga-were-pig so far. About to mine adamantium and do the infinite melt trick to try boost my fort wealth up to a billion or so. See if that helps.
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Quote from: Meph on February 21, 2014, 01:16:49 pm
Pylons on fire can stay, its awesome.

Amostubal

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #171 on: January 11, 2017, 11:09:42 am »
Wealth doesn't seem to do much but attract dragons, megabeasts, giants, and titans.   Its the rumor system that initiates army marches from civilizations that find out about your location.  I've noticed that I get the most invasions if I embark 1 region from an enemy city, embark on a road between enemy cities, or I open up annoying features such as temples and inns to outside visitors(who when you run slavers or savages, encourage friendly races that are building destroyers to visit your location... I've had to kill a few because they thought knocking over my tables was fun).  I think the system passes information around from the visitors and it eventually reaches groups that don't want you there.  Otherwise you can't force invasions. 

Mojos are not implemented...  A lot of work needed.

sigilblades have ranged skill:
[RANGED:MAGIC_NATURE:SPELLWRAITH]

which requires this Ammo:
[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_SPELL_SHARD]
   [NAME:bladeshard:bladeshards]
   [CLASS:SPELLWRAITH]
   [SIZE:50]
   [ATTACK:EDGE:1:2500:strike:strikes:NO_SUB:1800]
   [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

Magestaves have the range skill:
[RANGED:MAGIC_NATURE:SPELLDRUID]

which requires this Ammo:
[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_SPELL_BOLT]
   [NAME:magic missile:magic missiles]
   [CLASS:SPELLDRUID]
   [SIZE:50]
   [ATTACK:EDGE:1:2500:strike:strikes:NO_SUB:1800]   

Sigilblades and bladeshards drop from succubus raids, magestaves drop from Elf raids and world tree raids.

Two reactions in the Tribal Gear shop produce magestaves and sigilblades (which are called Tribal dreamwalker staff and oracle krisknife in the menu)
[REACTION:TRIBAL_DREAMSTAFF_ORC]
[NAME:Handcrafted bone dreamwalkers staff]
[BUILDING:ORC_TRIBALGEAR:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
   [REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LAMELLAR:LEATHER]
   [REAGENT:h:300:BAR:NONE:ASH:NONE][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
   [REAGENT:b:3:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][USE_BODY_COMPONENT][ANY_BONE_MATERIAL]
   [REAGENT:totem:1:TOTEM:NONE:NONE:NONE]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DRUID_WHIP:INORGANIC:BONEMOLD]
   [SKILL:BONECARVE][FUEL]

[REACTION:TRIBAL_CRISKNIFE_ORC]
[NAME:Handcrafted bone oracle krisknife]
[BUILDING:ORC_TRIBALGEAR:CUSTOM_SHIFT_C]
   [REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LAMELLAR:LEATHER]
   [REAGENT:h:300:BAR:NONE:ASH:NONE][DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
   [REAGENT:B:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][ANY_TOOTH_MATERIAL]
   [REAGENT:gem:1:SMALLGEM:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE]   
   [PRODUCT:100:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_ORACLE_KRIS:INORGANIC:BONEMOLD]
   [SKILL:BONECARVE][FUEL]

I could not confirm any source for magic missles ( ITEM_AMMO_SPELL_BOLT only appears once in the entire raws to describe the item used for magestaves range skill)...  No way to make Bladeshards either in any of the raws except the random chance from succubus raiding.

The orc raws need a lot of cleaning up.  there are several allowed reactions in the entity file that aren't present in the reaction file,  the reaction file has reactions not allowed in the entity, there is gear described in the items file that no reaction can produce, nor are they used anywhere else in the raws.  All of this causes portions of the orc setup to be beyond use.

there are composite bows, but they were moved to the elf outpost forge.  no compound bows,etc.  But if one is raiding the elf lands to gain the elfs to build outposts they can gain silver composites and mithril greatbows...  Once the Ancient Foundry is unlocked the orichalcum greatbow that can be produced there outshines all the ranged weapons available to be made by the orcs, including the bows available from the elf outpost.  The elf outposts primary job at that point is to enchant mithril arrows, if you really need the extra oomph for you buck.
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megahelmet

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #172 on: January 11, 2017, 04:15:13 pm »
> I open up annoying features such as temples and inns to outside visitors

Wait. How do I open it up to outside visitors? I built a tavern hoping people would show up, but only my orcs go there.
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Quote from: Meph on February 21, 2014, 01:16:49 pm
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Amostubal

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #173 on: January 12, 2017, 02:11:12 pm »
Quote from: megahelmet on January 11, 2017, 04:15:13 pm
> I open up annoying features such as temples and inns to outside visitors

Wait. How do I open it up to outside visitors? I built a tavern hoping people would show up, but only my orcs go there.

Short answer taverns will attract mostly just your own alignment, if your the only slaver alignment on the map, you wont get many outside visitors. 
Option 1:  Improve your tavern to the point that it brings in performance troupes, they can be of other alignments, even from civs at war, and will attract visitors of
other alignments from civs not at war with you.
Option 2:  Temples(annoying) and Libraries(Super Aggressively Annoying) are better options, as non slaver alignments will show up (just not civs that are at war with you).
Either way improve the qualities of and storage in the location until it reaches levels above and beyond that of an Emperor's Great Clanfather's entire room set and you will end up with lots of visitors, as long as you have invaders on.

Detailed answer:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #174 on: January 13, 2017, 02:37:24 pm »
So I just had a thought.

How viable would an early game blacksmoke/titanium industry be for Orcs, either as military gear, or as an initial supply of high value trade goods? Both the 'Ore' and the rocks you make acid from are normal priced low value stones, so my thought is it might be possible to start with a good amount and get cracking with decent metal very early. I tried to start a fort to test this out last night, but my wagon ended up parked next to a pack of hippos and things ended in fun real quick.

I'll likely give it another go sometime this weekend, but I figured I might as well check for input first.
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Amostubal

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #175 on: January 13, 2017, 03:25:48 pm »
mmmmmm hippos..... now I remember why I have water creatures disabled....  those are the elephants of the river there....
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Amostubal

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #176 on: January 25, 2017, 08:22:53 pm »
interesting conundrum.... I was moving through the orc reactions making a few interesting changes to modify the play so as to remove extranous steps (such as adding seeds to the reactions to make colored clay bricks because the original eats the plant and seed together.... requiring you to create tons of extra dimple dye to keep seed counts up for production.)  I was moving around the files and playing a world when I noticed there are 2 reactions for grinding stones in to sand at the millstone.

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:STONE_GRIND]
[NAME:Grind boulder into sand]
[BUILDING:MILLSTONE:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:IS_STONE][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[REAGENT:B:1:BOX:NONE:NONE:NONE][BAG][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_TAN][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:B]
[SKILL:MILLING]

[REACTION:STONE_GRIND_ORC]
[NAME:Grind rocks into sand]
[BUILDING:QUARRY_GHETTO_ORC:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[BUILDING:MILLSTONE:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[REAGENT:A:2:BOULDER:INORGANIC:WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[REAGENT:B:1:BOX:NONE:NONE:NONE][BAG][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_TAN][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:B]
[SKILL:STONECRAFT]

Both are accessible to Orcs, neither of them is properly set up to allow for detail setting... so you can't tell it what kind of rocks to use for grinding without elaborate stockpile settings...(I hate elaborate stockpile settings).  so my next thing to mess with is how to do that (I'm betting its similar to the wording on blocks to make it provide detail settings on them).

But the main issue is that we have 2 of them... I think we need to get rid of 1.  Either remove the orc reaction or remove the dwarf reaction from the orcs...  the dwarf version is 1 for 1 exchange compared to a 2 for 1 exchange in the orc version....and in one test this works great:

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:STONE_GRIND_ORC]
[NAME:Grind rocks into sand]
[BUILDING:QUARRY_GHETTO_ORC:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[BUILDING:MILLSTONE:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[REAGENT:B:1:BOX:NONE:NONE:NONE][BAG][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_TAN][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:B]
[SKILL:STONECRAFT]


works like it should, runs only worthless marked stones and you can decide to only burn up certain stones by selecting detail and it works with workflow correctly!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 08:38:36 pm by Amostubal »
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Amostubal

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #177 on: January 25, 2017, 09:25:23 pm »
additional modification that adds in archaeologist shop... until we have an orc Archaeologist... put it at the end of
ENTITY_SLAVER_ORC.TXT

Code: [Select]

###################################################################
##################      ARCHEOLOGIST
###################################################################
Added by Amostubal because otherwise there's no reason for all the treasure chests and relics from the raids.

YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:EXCAVATE_STONE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:FINISH_RESTORING]


and make this change to REACTION_DWARF_CIV.TXT:

Code: [Select]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[REACTION:EXCAVATE_STONE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[NAME:Excavate stones(5)]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST:CUSTOM_A]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[BUILDING:GUILD_MASON_W:CUSTOM_A]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[REAGENT:A:5:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE]YESARCHEOLOGIST[WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:10:1:CRAFTS:NONE:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:25:1:CRAFTS:NONE:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_STONEWARE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:FOSSIL]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:2:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:RELICT]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:3:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:TREASURE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[SKILL:CUTGEM]

one word (BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE to BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE) and the archaeologist can be set to only accept what you set in details so you can individually select the material for excavating.  So later when your running basically all dwarf cells for ore you can burn up the dolomite as fast as you can...  No more Stockpiles!

On another note I've sent a few messages to our friend smakemupagus... and I've received no reply... I'm considering consolidating all my bug fixes for Orcs into a zip and releasing it.  Considering actually making some serious modifications into it.... I think this went off the tracks when magic was considered for orcs.  I'm not sure how it could be implemented.  But the following changes I could see useful:

1.  the above fixes and others I've posted in this forum.
2.  addition of a way to craft your own bladesigils and magic missiles for the weapons orcs have access to that use these.
3.  an actual orc archaeologist of their own design(I'd start with just a copy of the dwarf archaeologist building, and make the reactions custom to orcs).
4.  redesign of the orc metal industry to fix its various issues:
4a.  process to gain mithril bars (currentlly you grind raw mithril into dust, then into damascas armors, then melt the armor down for mithril is the current process).  I'm thinking a process to take mithril dust (also other metal dusts orcs have access to) and casting it into bars at say the molten pit, damascas forge, or orc factory.
4b.  fix the orc smelting issues (most do not produce equal results to the smelter).
5.  Do something with all the junk that raids produce.
5a.  Possibly a separate building for unpacking raids, that has melt down options (equal amount of metal, but instead of a ton of goods, that you have to melt, it just drops all the goods and provides their metal bar equivalent... with a cost of say 5 coke with it).
5b.  Remove the mine raid or make it more valuable(say have possible stacks of axes and picks).
5c.  maybe a separate building for making raid boats and raid kits.... so they don't clog up the lists for raids.
5d.  use for all the souls received from succubus raids.... I'm thinking a succubus slave cell with reactions for turning the souls into goods or even burning them for skill boosts (as the libraries in the dwarf civ accomplish).
5e.  New raids... there are several designed not currently available.
6.  Fix the ancient foundry reactions (many of the reactions do not produce better goods then what can be produced at a forge... I hate that... some were originally designed to produce stronger armors that were 'dumbed' down to normal forge goods without reducing the higher reaction costs).
7. New acid reactions for the black furnace, currently the stones used in it are so rare that are a 3x3 embark location usually can only produce a handful of goods, a real waste of a awesome idea.
8.  Fixing all the shortcuts that are linked to the different things...
9.  Looking into basic magic, although I think that maybe just fixing the ammos for sigilblades and gnarled staffs would be helpful.

just some ideas I've been kicking around.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 03:56:13 pm by Amostubal »
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Weirdsound

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #178 on: February 15, 2017, 06:06:23 pm »
Quote from: Amostubal on January 25, 2017, 09:25:23 pm
additional modification that adds in archaeologist shop... until we have an orc Archaeologist... put it at the end of
ENTITY_SLAVER_ORC.TXT

Code: [Select]

###################################################################
##################      ARCHEOLOGIST
###################################################################
Added by Amostubal because otherwise there's no reason for all the treasure chests and relics from the raids.

YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:EXCAVATE_STONE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:FINISH_RESTORING]


and make this change to REACTION_DWARF_CIV.TXT:

Code: [Select]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[REACTION:EXCAVATE_STONE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[NAME:Excavate stones(5)]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST:CUSTOM_A]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[BUILDING:GUILD_MASON_W:CUSTOM_A]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[REAGENT:A:5:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE]YESARCHEOLOGIST[WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:10:1:CRAFTS:NONE:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:25:1:CRAFTS:NONE:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_STONEWARE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:FOSSIL]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:2:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:RELICT]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:3:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:TREASURE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[SKILL:CUTGEM]

one word (BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE to BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE) and the archaeologist can be set to only accept what you set in details so you can individually select the material for excavating.  So later when your running basically all dwarf cells for ore you can burn up the dolomite as fast as you can...  No more Stockpiles!

On another note I've sent a few messages to our friend smakemupagus... and I've received no reply... I'm considering consolidating all my bug fixes for Orcs into a zip and releasing it.  Considering actually making some serious modifications into it.... I think this went off the tracks when magic was considered for orcs.  I'm not sure how it could be implemented.  But the following changes I could see useful:

1.  the above fixes and others I've posted in this forum.
2.  addition of a way to craft your own bladesigils and magic missiles for the weapons orcs have access to that use these.
3.  an actual orc archaeologist of their own design(I'd start with just a copy of the dwarf archaeologist building, and make the reactions custom to orcs).
4.  redesign of the orc metal industry to fix its various issues:
4a.  process to gain mithril bars (currentlly you grind raw mithril into dust, then into damascas armors, then melt the armor down for mithril is the current process).  I'm thinking a process to take mithril dust (also other metal dusts orcs have access to) and casting it into bars at say the molten pit, damascas forge, or orc factory.
4b.  fix the orc smelting issues (most do not produce equal results to the smelter).
5.  Do something with all the junk that raids produce.
5a.  Possibly a separate building for unpacking raids, that has melt down options (equal amount of metal, but instead of a ton of goods, that you have to melt, it just drops all the goods and provides their metal bar equivalent... with a cost of say 5 coke with it).
5b.  Remove the mine raid or make it more valuable(say have possible stacks of axes and picks).
5c.  maybe a separate building for making raid boats and raid kits.... so they don't clog up the lists for raids.
5d.  use for all the souls received from succubus raids.... I'm thinking a succubus slave cell with reactions for turning the souls into goods or even burning them for skill boosts (as the libraries in the dwarf civ accomplish).
5e.  New raids... there are several designed not currently available.
6.  Fix the ancient foundry reactions (many of the reactions do not produce better goods then what can be produced at a forge... I hate that... some were originally designed to produce stronger armors that were 'dumbed' down to normal forge goods without reducing the higher reaction costs).
7. New acid reactions for the black furnace, currently the stones used in it are so rare that are a 3x3 embark location usually can only produce a handful of goods, a real waste of a awesome idea.
8.  Fixing all the shortcuts that are linked to the different things...
9.  Looking into basic magic, although I think that maybe just fixing the ammos for sigilblades and gnarled staffs would be helpful.

just some ideas I've been kicking around.

Been a while since I've put much thought into MDF. Here are some thoughts on some of your ideas, by number:

2: A good place to start would be the Shadowbroker, which I think is somewhat barren compared to some of the other merchant stalls. Seems like the kinda place one might go to buy magic ammo.

4b: Are we talking about the Molten Pit? As much as I love those reactions, it might make more sense to perhaps add the option to bulk purchase some low grade metal/ore from the merchant stalls, and remove the molten pit melting stuff. That way you can recieve much of the same effect of turning any metal into copper/iron by selling junk gear to the Arms Bazzar.

5a: I think raiding is OP enough without being able to instantly turn everything into bars.
5c: Those seem like small things that don't need a whole new building. Perhaps add boat building to the Siege Workshop directly? As for weapon kits, I wouldn't mind being able to assemble them at the freelancer's guild, or even purchase them directly from the Arms Dealer.
5d: I think Succubus raids should be either removed or reworked entirely for several reasons. You cannot make Bonemold/Bloodsteel in Succubus mode, so it is strange you can raid them for it. Succubi are also the only slaver race (ally of the Orcs) that you can directly raid - the worst you can do to goblins is round up workers, and that double standard seems kind of funny to me.

6: I'd be fine with just ditching the gear making reactions, or slightly changing them and moving them to the Damascus Forge, and keeping the Ancient Foundry as a dependable source of rare metal bars. Perhaps tackle issue 4a and put some form of Mithril Making at the foundry as well.

7: It would be cool to spread out the blacksmoke industry a bit and put acid making reactions in other workshops. I suggest allowing allowing the Kobold Poisoner (who rarely gets any use anyway) several reactions to make acid from Bonemeal and various toxic substances (both plants and imported venom barrels). You might also consider having raids against humans and dwarves occasionally drop Acid.

9: If you do end up making something drasticly different from the old Dreamwalker based system, I'd consider merging Dreamwalkers and Artisians into a single catch-all intellectual caste, as without the old magic system all Dreamwalkers are really good for is manning the hospital, and you only need so many doctors per fort.
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Amostubal

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Re: ☼Orcs☼ - Everything Orc Mode for Masterwork 2016 (New poll 6/30/16)
« Reply #179 on: February 15, 2017, 08:17:55 pm »
Yeah  weirdsound, I worked on some of what I was talking about, not much any suggestions is nice so I'll go through your points and then say what I did do.

2.  Interesting, I haven't even touched on that point in my jitters through the raws.  I'll consider it.
4b. Yeah those reactions.   Other than the pig iron and steel (which is the only way to make these without making cauldron for a Metallurgist, which doesn't feel orcish to me.  The rest of the smelting is just off...  what I figure is that when rusty iron was removed and replaced with bloodsteel, that's when this shop lost track and those weird smelting jobs appeared.  I use the molten pit primarily for steel and wood to coal reactions.  Even then I just feel like it was a lost shop.

5a.  Well I never wrote the melt it into bars reaction... what I did do was created a customs office, place it where you want goods to be unpacked at, 5x5 shop.  It matches all the hot keys for the raids so that it's easier to remember hotkeys. oh and it looks like it was cut from the same page as the raiddock... moving the unpacks take away 1/3rd of the jobs filling the menu for the raiddocks and make it easier to place in near say smelters or up near the foodstocks or wherever.
5c.  Yeah I tossed that idea almost immediately.  Opting for the above mentioned customs shop. 

5d.  Yeah I play succubus a lot, and talk to Boltgun often... I hated that one succubus raid... I switched it to silver mithril gold items, used the armors from the succubus class, added in some glass and brimstone to assist with black smoke and ashland glass shops.... then I made a pillage and an assault, with more interesting items and resources for those 2 shops.   Anyone wanting get to go through ashland glass and black smoke reactions will love succubus raiding.  Kept the souls though... maybe because I also made a succubus captive cage and I hadn't decided what to do with her work cell yet.  maybe a trade in for the souls... maybe a soul for a skill up... or maybe a part of orc magic.
Also I didn't consider that odd about goblins... maybe because their are dark pits and other kinds of raid stuff for them and other races defined in the reactions not in use.

6.  I was considering tackling the ancient foundry next... you know the concept of a foundry is to mass produce items that are useful, especially for an army... but I do like the idea of it moving the casting of mithril bars and other stuff from dust.  I can come up with a useful list.  I think though that your right we need to get rid of the individual armor/weapons from their all together.  Possibly moving the valuable items somewhere else if people really want them... or I was thinking of a sub menu that provides batches of gear like the orc foundry does just only of the higher metal quality items. say 5 deep bronze mail greaves for 4/5ths of the actual cost of the item.  Maybe 2 subgroups, 1 for deepbronze gear and 1 for orichalcum gear.  anyways.... kick that around.

7.  Interesting idea to use the poisoner... I build them all the time but rarely touch them.  their reactions just aren't that useful with the low raid counts.

9. Agreed.  On the Dreamwalker issue.  My only real issue with magic, is that there aren't any good examples floating around on how it is accompliahed.  It took me forever to understand how the fire imps were tossing fireballs.  It seems that most magic systems rely on a lot of scripting in dfhack for the razzle dazzle. and personally that's something I haven't delved into enough to jump into or its just copying "high end" creature attacks.

So now then what did I do?  Well I made an orc archaeologist, reworked the rewards from treasures/fossils/relics so that really valuable rewards drop less often then not so valuable goods.

Reworked raiding...
1. Reduced cost and rewards for mines and put it at the level of a farm raid.
2. Created a logging camp raid and fishing fleet raid to round out base resources, provides a source of shell and pearl.  Same price and value as a farm raid and mine raid.
3.  Evened and balanced the Dwarf elven human succubus raids along with what is above I gave armor specific sets to each including leggings and gloves, corsets and thongs... PANTY RAIDS!  evened out the item drops to about 16 average a raid.  Humans and dwarfs have metals steel bronze iron, succubus drop glass and acid mats, elves drop wood and raw mithril gold silver...
4. Pillages, Reworked abbey as a more human type raid, created a new dwarf pillage, new succubus dark temple raid, new elven sanctuary raid.  Slightly better goods then above, dwarf raids drops anvils and pipes, human raid still has the splints and bandages lol, elven raid is more about instruments and statues, succubus has metal beds and glass items.
5. 4 solid assaults.   No more dwarf assault gives you all you need.  Better gear drops then the earlier ones. Assaults drop about 24 items average.  Dwarf and human assaults gives iron steel and bronze and deep bronze bars and gear.  Elves and succubus drops gold silver and mithril gear and stones.  They all have a chance for relics/treasures/fossils.
6. Treasure fleet only slightly modified, got rid of all the oddity gear.
7. Each pillage can only drop fragments of a blueprint, 4 fragments for a full blueprint.  Assaults actually drop full blueprints.  Created a blueprint for each race... haven't gotten much farther than that... don't know what I'm going to do with the new blueprints, may even change their names... human - alchemist chamber, was going to give them a transmutation center.  Succubus - dark temple - sort of a black magic type location, possibly a trading place for all those lost souls.  Elves - sanctuary really didn't get farther than the name on that one.... just like the idea of an elven sanctuary....

After all that I've been bugging with Fedor and few others, been resting and building a huge orc obsidian cast for the last 2 days... really not done much more than that.... that I can think of... been staring at that clay issue that was brought up in the main forums... staring at my language mod some... really it's the end of winter blues here, and I just don't want to talk tons of lists...

Apologies I'm on my phone at the moment... there may be some edits of this for typos when I get home. - edited it, wow I hate my phone typos.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 09:39:04 pm by Amostubal »
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