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Combat magic (frost storms, rite of pain, etc.)

69 (27.5%)

Ritual magic (weather, timeflow, etc.)

53 (21.1%)

More high end industries locked by looted blueprints or trade (post ideas in thread?)

52 (20.7%)

GUI option to activate more nonplayable slaver civs (ashlanders, deep legion, etc.)

50 (19.9%)

Other (post ideas in thread?)

2 (0.8%)

Needs nothing, just fixes and tweaks are fine!

25 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 128

[smakemupagus]

Discuss everything related to Orc Fortress mode for Masterwork Dwarf Fortress 2016!

General discussion, suggestions, and bug reports all welcome.

[smakemupagus]

Feedback from players requested...?
* Common orcs and snaga are less strong than in Old Masterwork, and tremendously strong Uruks are more rare.  But Uruks and Ologs are more common.  Good, bad, etc?
* More ideas to fill out existing, or new, foreign Labor Cells and auxilla Outposts?
* Goblin/kobold raids: We could consider rebalancing them to be "proper" raids in the future if the simple round-ups are considered too easy or not interesting enough.

Suggestions
* Modify in a conquered site noble 
* Modify all your localised militia groups & commanders to 'law enforcement' so that they enact their slavery routines and round up tresspassers when site fighting resolutions and patrols are finished. Incarcerated people will be added to the prisons and soon re-emerge as citizens to work the lands.
* Sacrificing captives for bloodsteel or magic mats.  (Probably if/when the Altar of Storms or Sun & Stars temple come back)
* Dwarf labor cell extracts adamantine?
* More animals (Glyptodonts?)  Balancing cost for existing animals (Aurochs too cheap?)
* Increase value on metal-glasses
* Add some kind of pike to the entity so that embarkers can take points in the skill?
* Something to do with Pipeweed.  Milk and/or blood fermented drinks?
* More stuff for blacksmoke furnace (Explode ammo?  Acid ammo?)
* Corsair training
* Axes at tribal crafter
* Use Meph's muckraker fix
* Fix cobalt (powder) at glassblower.  Consider Magma glassblower.

Spoiler: changelog (click to show/hide)

2016v1.01 OF0.2

Changes relative to Meph's v1.03beta with Tiny Orc Changes


* Changes to onLoad animals
* Put back in change [T_WORD:ONE:ash] (we know the word for One from the Ring...)
* Put back in metallurgist
* Debugged the creature skin color variation errorlog
* Weapons
   * balance changes (nerfs) to match vanilla rather than Old Masterwork combat balance
   * flavor/balance changes re speed
   * polehammer, katana(s), macuahuitls, jagged spear
   * others will need balance pass in the future
* Entity bug: replace ITEM_WEAPON_TOMAHAWKS with ITEM_WEAPON_TOMAHAWKS_ORC
* Changed reagent in ashglass from moonstone to orthoclase (more common, chemically equivalent)
* Removed most native skills from castes.  In some cases (mostly non-combat), further boosted skill gain to compensate.

OF0.3
* Require blueprint for ancient foundry
* Change OUTSIDE_ONLY_ORC_RAIDERS to ORC_RAIDERS
* Re-enabled macuahuitl5 reaction in entity (adamantine studded)
* Baseline Outpost content
* Quick way to make (normal) glass blocks at Ashland
* Smelter can process Anthracite
* Burn corpses etc. (dismemberment theatre)
* Bugfix: Bone trap component reactions wrong building name
* Bonemold uses bonemeal.
* Added a small number of descriptions to reactions

OF0.4
Changes relative to v1.03 Release

* Permitted RAID_GOBLIN_ORC and RAID_KOBOLD_ORC
* Un-permitted RAID_DARKTOWER_ORC
* Added ITEM_TOOL_BLUEPRINT_ANCIENTFOUNDRY (25%) to Mountainhome and Ruins loot tables
* Removed iron bars from molten pit "slag" products.  Added more rocks and small chance for low-grade quartz gems and iron ores to some slags.
* Added REACTION_CLASS:IS_BLOOD to MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD_TEMPLATE (This is outside "my" files -- Meph please confirm)
* Used REACTION_CLASS:IS_BLOOD in Bloodsteel and bloodmeal reax
* More civ-level nobles are restricted to Orcish race (high warlord, warlord, high clanspeaker, clan liason)
* Allow local clan leader and warchief to have modest room requirements
* Huscarl REQUIRES_POPULATION:60
* Weapon balance pass
-- claws nerfed "merciless" attack
-- polehammer is PIKE
-- lifeguard society arms is PIKE
-- makeshifts, redo many stats.  Slow prepare for "wind up & crush" attacks
-- redo from scratch:  Jaguar, Blademaster, Cavebear.  Greatly nerfed "Old Masterwork" ultimate attacks
-- slow attack and recover on powered weapon ultimates, but left them overpowered (items not currently in production)
-- redo from scratch: Dragon, Falcon, Assassin, Lifeguard, Spear Auxilla, Hammer Legion.  Removed ultimates.  Now melees just like their component melee item.

[Kars]

Feedback from players requested...?
* Common orcs and snaga are less strong than in Old Masterwork, and tremendously strong Uruks are more rare.  But Uruks and Ologs are more common.  Good, bad, etc?

I think this is a good idea, you could even make Uruks tremendously strong across the board but keep them rare - making them a prize that you want to take care of and not recklessly risk, rather than being what they are now, essentially a draft force that you can give crappy weapons and they still slaughter the enemy anyways. Five of my uruks armed with normal quality iron weapons and armor cut through roughly 35 putrid blendecs and took no casualties - not even a wound. And they weren't sword masters either. I think that's roughly how powerful they should be, but the issue is that if one of them had gotten unlucky and died, I have about 20 other uruks just milling around my fort that I could draft in. Granted, I have a population of 70, but when they're this powerful, 5 out of 70 seems about right. With regards to Ologs, they actually seem a bit weaker. My snaga pair-of-claws unit seems to outperform the Olog hammers.

Suggestions
* Some old weapons still need re-balanced to conform to vanilla/MWDF2016 balance

Troops wielding pair-of-claws seem a little overpowered when used in combination with troops wielding scimitars, the pair-of-claws takes only a moment to knock the enemy unconscious with pain. Maybe working as intended since their killing power isn't too good, but they still managed to take limbs off of a megabeast that didn't feel pain.

[lokyar]

Just throwing ideas out there, they may be bad or hard to implement and thus not worth it, that and watch out for feature creep (especially with captives).

The labor cells seem not worth it, captives in general seem a bit worthless considering their rarity. I currently don't want things I already can do, I want things
I don't have/have very limited acces to.
I'm also way better of putting captives in outposts instead of labour cells for the above reason. Maybe make the captive cells do more things like craft low quality/crappy versions (make them only standard quality? is that possible?) of low end racial exclusives like plate armour for humans, great bows/magestaffs for elves and SOMETHING from dwarves. that or just make outpost the sole prisoner using object.

Sacrificing captives for material things like:
(special?) blood and bone or using them as reagents for some higher end weapons/metal that require several captives (maybe t3 bone metal? something around mithril or a worse deep bronze?).
Maybe enchanting weapons, (something something arcane blades) for sentient/reaction inducing weapons or just really good ones with captives sacrificing?

Goblin/kobold captives seem oddly hard to get by, can't seem to find how i can get an early enough source of them for them to be actually worth the trouble. All of the buildings are good industry buildings but by them time I get acces to them I already have an industry with normal buildings set up.

[smakemupagus]

Thanks!

re:  Uruks:  OK, noted.  I will wait for some more feedback or my own tests before changing again.

re:  claws:  Yes, they're working very close to as intended, as you noticed, but balance reports are always useful.

re:  labor cells:  They're pretty worth it if you're in a desert and need wood or above an aquifer and need hard mats, to the point that I've gotten reports of them being overpowered too in the past    Whenever you have something that can transform resources to avoid a scarcity, it's potentially a delicate balance.  I feel like I will probably think of some more thematically appropriate tasks for the labor cells, but if not, I agree they might get merged somewhere else.

re:  Sacrificing captives:  Perhaps, once the temples are back.  I might wait and see how Meph and Indigo are implementing their versions of bloodmagic for other races so that i can try to do it in a compatible way.

re:  Goblin/kobold captives:  Ah, yeah I now see Meph commented out -PERMITTED_REACTION:RAID_GOBLIN_ORC- and -PERMITTED_REACTION:RAID_KOBOLD_ORC- at the Raiders'.  I'll probably turn those back on.  Question for players:  would you rather have (as in Old Masterwork) a cheap Goblin round up with very high chance of bringing back just the one worker, or proper raids against goblins & kobolds with a full loot table?

[CptCrunchy]

The old Orc mode was always my favorite in MW.  One issue I had with it though was that the later tier metalworking, with wolfram and mithril, was incredibly strong and could be obtained within a couple fort years.  I remember there being some changes near the end of that development, with welded wolfram being removed, so I guess my question is whether or not the advanced metalworking will be included in MW 2016, or is the focus more on tribal and mass-produced weapons?

[smakemupagus]

Hi Cpt, very glad to hear you enjoy it.  There will still not be welded wolfram or welded mithril, which no longer exist in the Masterwork universe.  High tech (steamfoundry) are out for now unless Gnomes or another science race come along that we could steal blueprints etc. from. 

Orcish artisan versions of advanced materials (damasc, ashglass, and blacksmoke furnace) will stay, both because I like it thematically, and I feel like this is fun for gameplay reasons to provide some industry options that give value to different resources.  I imagine Meph would be happy to make a GUI button to turn various stuff off if there's enough demand for it, personally I prefer to keep my options open so I can do different kind of villages on different embarks. 

The process and materials are supposed to be complex enough to slow you down and make it harder to mass produce than it is for the Dwarves to mass produce, say, Volcanic.  If it's not working out that way I'd like to hear a bit more about your set up, or see a save, etc.

[SpiritArmor]

Great to see you back, I absolutely love classic orc mode.

About goblin/kobolds, maybe a middle of the line approach could work? Keep their raids comparatively easy, but jack up the price and give some small early-game bonuses in addition to a goblin/kobold migrant- maybe some of the products their shanties give, or (at most?) a pet or two, to underline that these civs are more ragtag. Just something to give an element of randomness that you get with the other raids.

For instance, a run of the mill goblin raid could come back with some crappy stone blocks, wood planks, or food; a rare drop could be a caged troll or a low-grade copper helmet. A kobold raid could return with some weird plants, leather, or a pair of socks (or, hell, just one sock); a rare drop could be a barrel of low-grade poison or a few sets of clothing.

[lokyar]

Don't know if bug or intended but there are no ancient centurion gauntlets

[coolphoton]

I like the old gobo/ kobold raid mechanic, but a replacement with reduced success but a chance to get 2 'migrants' or maybe some of there pets might be nice.

[smakemupagus]

It seems there's no more butchering invaders or animal-men
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=154198.msg7029010#msg7029010

If anyone knows more about this issue (like whether Toady considers it a bug or working as intended) I'd be interested.  For now it's a moderately big impact gameplay wise for our orcs!  Impacts not only bloodsteel / leather industry, and much fewer totems available for Freelancers or magic.  My current test fort has giant elephant to hunt at least. 

@SpiritArmor, coolphoton:  thanks, I'm leaning towards a middle ground too.  For now the old "round up" is back in.

@lokyar:  It's sort of both a bug *and* intended -- it is a legacy of when we used to not be able to make gauntlets with the right "handedness" in custom reactions.  thanks for note.

[Meph]

Added all your changes, uploading now.

[Gamerlord]

*tacklehugs smake*
Yessssssssss.

[smakemupagus]

What's up Gamerlord?!

[Gamerlord]

Came back to the forums to download a new df version and found out Masterwork was updated, and then realized the orcs were updated as well! Happy days for all!