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[bostltch]

"can't use wood to work on wood"

I mean, technically you could fell a tree with a wooden baseball bat, it would just take a realllllly long time and possibly a few bats

[Fleeting Frames]

Heh. I suppose you could also fell a tree with ballista, but that yields no wood.

[Linkxsc]

So note. Tropical forests kinda suck for this, as all they ever have for wildlife is snakes that can mess up unarmored dwarves pretty bad.
Temperate savanna seems much better. No shelter, but you get steady boes and such from all the macaques and such.

[Spriggans]

Okay I think I will try a "0 point embark / no merchants / no picks or axes from migrants" run.

The idea is simple but, I just need a good embark location.

This embark being :
- a volcano with shallow lava.
- access to sand and fire clay.
- some water, even muddy pools will do. Dwarves can drink the rain when they are dry.
- a pair of sheeps as starting animals.
- gatherable plants or fruits so dwarves can farm.


Now for the play :

• Shear the sheeps. Use wool for a bag.
• Use your first wood to create a wood furnace.
• Convert wood n°2 to ash.
• Build a 3x3 zone with a one square hole above volcano. Two ways you can do this : lucky embark (use two woods to complete a nearly done 3x3) or dwarven embark (use wood for a bucket, use bucket to drop water on lava, making obsidian, making a 3x3)
• Use ash to build magma glass furnace on the 3x3
• Use bag to get unlimited glass
• Anything from here

I wonder how far we could go.
The answer being pretty far.
Goblinite brings metals, so we have mechanisms, armor and weapons (still needs an anvil though... )
FireClay pots to hold liquids and food.
We could use pumps to move water / magma and do stupid stuffs. All that without picks.

No picks is pretty brutal. I wonder if we could use some kind of cave in to gather stone.
Maybe we could allow ourselves the use of some caravan wood for beds.

[Linkxsc]

How are you going to make that ash?

[Spriggans]

How are you going to make that ash?

That's actually a good point. I overlooked it
Is it possible to have an embark wagon made out of nether-cap ? I've had one made out of tower caps, so maybe...
There must be a way !

[Linkxsc]

How are you going to make that ash?

That's actually a good point. I overlooked it
Is it possible to have an embark wagon made out of nether-cap ? I've had one made out of tower caps, so maybe...
There must be a way !

I've seen subterranian woods before, but never ever nether cap

[PatrikLundell]

Firstly, sheep are something like 65 embark points each, which is a fair bit above zero. Build a butcher's shop, a tanner, and a leatherworker out of the wood, slaughter your draft animals, and make leather bags instead (although, as indicated, the issue with building the workshop will cause issues with getting glass anyway).
Secondly, no, you won't get a nether-cap wagon, because the subterranean access is limited to the first cavern (and nether-cap is exclusive to the third [plus your dug out subterranean soil/muddy stone]).

[FantasticDorf]

Temperate shrubland/wooded areas interjoined with other biomes along a river is ideal from my own testing.

> Collect dwarves, set up food stockpiles atleast minimum 20 spaces in length each (as relevant to where you are focusing) and use floor flow underneath a tree canopy in order to make a large meeting area. Putting down a small prayer area and tavern area will stop need buildup, though military tend to get rather distracted the happyness qualities of this on top of social skill buildup is worth it than leaving it for 3 months to stew.

> Deconstruct the wagon for 3 wood in which to build workshops with, only the fishery by the river is 'pernament' until everything is deconstructed for the trading post, build a butcher and a tanner out of the other two wood to process bodies that come in (separating the meat that can go straight to the stockpile and also the bones & hair and quickly processing the hides into unrottable leather). When you have a sufficiently large pile of bodies & bones to work with, deconstruct, make stuff with a leatherworker and craftdwarf then reconstruct the workshops.

> Begin the process of eventually swapping out everybody's clothes as relevant by assigning them into squads using your truly idle dwarves as commanders and captains as relevant via the military screen. Over time dwarves will forget the clothes they embarked in and it'll be ready for bartering along with your spare supplies and whatever the migrants bring.

• Bone/Shell helmet
• Leather armour
• Bone/shell leggings
• bone/shell greaves
• Leather low boots

River otters and snapping turtles found close to temperate rivers at the start make good practice and dish out a head start, killing all the otters at once is a waste (leave one for conservation purposes because they spawn in clusters as a rule) and bordering other biomes (choosing a desert/rocky wasteland as my border for precious camel herd meat is my preference) lets more variety walk in.

[Fleeting Frames]

Hm....But if I smoosh up caverns...*Sets cavern number to 1* *sees more Dark Fortresses than usual with parameters....

1: coffee (and some giant brown recluse spider webs in the trees?)
2: finger lime (and giant mongoose who was very afraid in first second.)
3: pecan wood (and quite a bit of brown recluse man webs). Looked at wood list available for embark. Tower-cap, yes, but no other underground trees....
4: peach wood logs, (and invisible biome overlap gives me silk despite being embarking on single wrong biome. )
5: citron wood (, and found armadillo sow. A baby could kill one and get the shell left on the ground. )
6: tower-cap logs. Interestingly, had white wagon....
7: tower cap again(, and found first animal person - kestrel man. He climbs trees. And, huh, 16z from surface to magma sea...)
8: palm tree.
9: persimmon wood. I'm thinking that I don't really need to deconstruct the wagon to see it isn't underground tree....
10: apricot wood.

Perhaps this would be better done with multiple dwarven civs, but...I should have checked whether they're usable in the first place, rather, as my nether-cap stockpiles in older fort are available for wall-building, but not wood furnaces, glass furnaces or kilns.

And yeah, no shearable wagon-pullers, so they'd have to be brought by migrants. Though, if one excludes them....I don't recall ever seeing visitors with animals on them. Kiki gets no cats, I guess?

[Spriggans]

It's possible to find brown recluse webs on the surface. Depending on your embark.
But webs would bring you silk cloths. So bags and stuff.

[Linkxsc]

Well. I guess 0 item isnt so bad in any biome where you can get a supply of food and drink. Just really dicking around until the caravan shows up, then you fine.

It occurrs to me though they it should really be included that stone axes, spears, and possibly hammers and such should be producable

[Fleeting Frames]

...Having not worked with silk, that didn't occur to me >_>. Yeah, won't need any shearables in that biome, then.

Hm, a potential source of metal weapons/military might be warriors coming to visit the fortress. It might be possible that it will also eventually yield a pick when running with no migrants or caravans.

...maybe =D

[Linkxsc]

Thoughts. What if you did the fort on a world old enough that all the civs are dead?
Also, in other news. Yeah 2 kabolds come, buth get shot up by moderately skilled hunters, add 2 large iron daggers to the supply of stuff ive got my hands on.

[Urist McVoyager]

Sounds good Link, keep it up!

To each their own on outsiders and such. If I were personally going to do this hardcore style, I'd limit my soft cap to 30 people. No digging, and the only walls would be small huts like tents. Or else I'd mod leather to be more abundant on large animals and to make leather blocks out of multiple hides. Make actual tents. If we can design our own traps, I'd invent a snare trap for capturing and taming small animals. Or else just make mechanisms doable in wood.

Really, I'd just make a human version of Kobold Camp.