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Author Topic: Population Thresholds?  (Read 3238 times)

ManaUser

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Population Thresholds?
« on: May 21, 2016, 03:05:29 pm »

Generally I like to play smaller forts, FPS does better and it's easier to keep track of what's going on. But I'm curious exactly what I'll miss out on if I limit the population. The information on the Immigration wiki page is very minimal and, I suspect, wrong: "Keep in mind that your population must be at least 80 to get a king and 100 to obtain the current game features.". But the nobles page says you need 140 for a monarch, and generally looks more reliable.

So... what "current game features", exactly need 100 dwarves? Or is that nonsense? But more importantly, are there any lower thresholds I should be aware of? For instance minimum to get sieges or megabeasts?

Right now I'm thinking 50 (apparently the minimum for a mayor) is probably a good compromise number. So other than a monarch, is there anything of note I miss out on at that size?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 03:07:16 pm by ManaUser »
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Sethatos

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Re: Population Thresholds?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2016, 04:21:15 pm »

20 to get a baron (or a duke)
20 to get forgotten beast attacks
20 to get were beast attacks
50 to get a mayor
60 to get Titan and mega beast attacks
80 to get goblin sieges
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Population Thresholds?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2016, 05:11:54 pm »

80 for titan/mega beast attacks, but this number can be adjusted.
Likewise, the goblin siege threshold can be adjusted as well to 50, 20 downwards and 100?, 140? upwards. They can also be set to trigger on fortress wealth and/or export value in addition/instead (defaulted not to trigger on those).
FBs can definitely arrive before a pop of 20, as I get them earlier than that with my dead civs.
Also note that the monarch arrival criteria (140 pop metropolis plus some other stuff, including donations) only apply for normal arrival of a monarch. With a failing or struggling civ you can get saddled with the election of a monarch from among your own dorfs, either because there wasn't a monarch to begin with, or it croaked as the mountainhome was conquered/destroyed. Emergency appointments of a monarch can happen within days of embark.
Black towers can visit their neighbors at any time, without regards to how many bodies are available for recruitment.
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ManaUser

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Re: Population Thresholds?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2016, 05:49:14 pm »

Darn, 80 for sieges, huh? That's about what I've got in my current fort and it's a little crowded for my taste. Now that I know what I'm looking for, I think I see where these numbers are. So if I wanted to bypass these limits, I would change them in creature_standard.txt and in entity_default.txt, then gen a new world, correct?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Population Thresholds?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2016, 06:13:30 pm »

Darn, 80 for sieges, huh? That's about what I've got in my current fort and it's a little crowded for my taste. Now that I know what I'm looking for, I think I see where these numbers are. So if I wanted to bypass these limits, I would change them in creature_standard.txt and in entity_default.txt, then gen a new world, correct?
For sieges just changing entity_default.txt should be enough. Find the goblin entity (EVIL). The siege population trigger is set to 3 at default which is pop 80. Set it to 2 for pop 50 or 1 for pop 20. A value of 0 (like the two wealth triggers are set at) means no trigger. The exact values for wealth triggers are over at the wiki.

Changing goblin siege triggers actually works mid-save, without having to gen a new world. You'll find a copy of entity_default in the 'save' folder - change that one. Generally most raw changes don't work mid-save but the siege triggers seem to be OK.

Titan triggers can be set in advanced worldgen.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 06:19:20 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Sethatos

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Re: Population Thresholds?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2016, 06:20:00 pm »

I had a two Minotaur attacks at a population of 65. Maybe because they are only semi-megabeasts? But yes sorry Titans are 80
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ManaUser

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Re: Population Thresholds?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2016, 07:04:28 pm »

Thanks for the help. And yes, Sethatos, the semimegas seem to have an ATTACK_TRIGGER of only 50.
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