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[Molly Renata]

Two questions here, one for 31.25 in specific and one for newer versions.


1. In version 31.25, is it possible to reduce the number of migrants for the first two migrant waves? From my understanding, they'll come regardless of what else you do, so there's no way to eliminate them completely. (Unless I walled in my fort and just let the migrants die outside... kind of thinking of doing that for a generational fort, though there would obviously be problems if my starting seven didn't get along.)

2. Have there been changes to the way migrants work since 31.25? I know some of the newer versions have vastly different mechanics for invasions and the like, so I don't know if there would be any way to prevent migrants in those versions. (Out of the newer ones, I've only played 34.11, but the sheer number of migrants turned me off because I prefer smaller forts.)

[Kogan Onulsodel]

You can set the population cap in d_init.txt. You should be able to limit yourself to a smaller fort in any of the newer versions with that (I've only been playing since 34, so I can't speak to earlier versions). See http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:D_init.txt

I hope that helps!

[PatrikLundell]

I've heard it said the control of the first two migration waves were broken in old DF version, so the pop cap wasn't checked until after the first caravan, or something like that. I guess that's a partial answer to the first question. If the old version works somewhat like the modern ones, you might be able to trigger a human caravan during the first summer to get DF to respect the cap set. I don't have any actual knowledge of old versions, though.

In the current version, I generally play dead civs, which means I get the starting 7 + 2 waves (tends to sum to somewhere in the 21-21 range), which I find to be a reasonable number. When not playing dead civs I raise the pop cap at 10 at a time until I get the to my target pop, since I don't like monster migration waves (save/exit, change cap, restart after each wave).

[Molly Renata]

I've heard it said the control of the first two migration waves were broken in old DF version, so the pop cap wasn't checked until after the first caravan, or something like that. I guess that's a partial answer to the first question. If the old version works somewhat like the modern ones, you might be able to trigger a human caravan during the first summer to get DF to respect the cap set. I don't have any actual knowledge of old versions, though.

In the current version, I generally play dead civs, which means I get the starting 7 + 2 waves (tends to sum to somewhere in the 21-21 range), which I find to be a reasonable number. When not playing dead civs I raise the pop cap at 10 at a time until I get the to my target pop, since I don't like monster migration waves (save/exit, change cap, restart after each wave).

...I wonder how I would go about doing that? It seems to me that your civ's caravan is the first one to come, regardless of which season it comes in... unless you're playing as a non-dwarven race, or if you change when the dwarven caravan comes, which involves modding...

So save+restart for the newer versions? Sounds like a lot of work, but it's better than nothing. (also, I COMPLETELY hear you on monster migration waves, it's part of why I had trouble with 34.11)

[PatrikLundell]

I've accidentally triggered human caravans in the first summer when trying to work around the exports value bug in 0.42.05 (but it did also work around the bug). If the entity_defaults.txt file in your version is similar to that of the modern versions, you go about that by copying the PROGRESS_TRIGGER_* values missing for humans from the elves. The standard set contains 6 value (3 for caravan arrival conditions and 3 for siege trigger conditions), and two of the caravans ones are omitted from the humans (they only arrive based on export value, while others also trigger on population and fortress wealth).

Saving/restarting once per season isn't that much work, and you really want to save once in a while anyway, in case of crashes. This method should work on all versions having the pop cap parameter after the initial two waves (and always with the modern ones), if I've understood forum discussions correctly.

[Molly Renata]

I've accidentally triggered human caravans in the first summer when trying to work around the exports value bug in 0.42.05 (but it did also work around the bug). If the entity_defaults.txt file in your version is similar to that of the modern versions, you go about that by copying the PROGRESS_TRIGGER_* values missing for humans from the elves. The standard set contains 6 value (3 for caravan arrival conditions and 3 for siege trigger conditions), and two of the caravans ones are omitted from the humans (they only arrive based on export value, while others also trigger on population and fortress wealth).

Saving/restarting once per season isn't that much work, and you really want to save once in a while anyway, in case of crashes. This method should work on all versions having the pop cap parameter after the initial two waves (and always with the modern ones), if I've understood forum discussions correctly.

I believe the tokens for caravans/sieges in 31.25 are similar or the same, but I'll have to check to make sure. If nothing else, it could be an interesting endeavor.

...And yeah, I should really learn to save more often. I can't count the number of times I've ragequit a fortress because the game crashed after a long period of not saving.

[Loci]

I've heard it said the control of the first two migration waves were broken in old DF version, so the pop cap wasn't checked until after the first caravan, or something like that.

It was a "feature" where the liaison updated your civilization's knowledge of your fort's population cap after his visit, which meant the cap was usually activated too late to limit/prevent the first two waves. You can, however, use dfhack to directly activate the cap, which should allow it to limit/block the first two waves as well. The process to activate the cap using dfhack was mentioned in previous forum threads, but I don't recall if they included detailed instructions.

[PatrikLundell]

And that also means bringing in the human caravan early does nothing to resolve the pop cap detection issue, unfortunately, although I guess changing dorfs to arrive in spring (and elves in autumn) might actually work, or, if you can't get them to arrive immediately, switch dorfs and humans.

[Molly Renata]

And that also means bringing in the human caravan early does nothing to resolve the pop cap detection issue, unfortunately, although I guess changing dorfs to arrive in spring (and elves in autumn) might actually work, or, if you can't get them to arrive immediately, switch dorfs and humans.

I think summer would probably be better. All my experiences with spring caravan civs have resulted in them coming the next year.