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Author Topic: United Nations related nonsense thread  (Read 7189 times)

Sheb

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Loud Whispers

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2016, 02:21:14 pm »

Oh man, even the UN is getting the Salman slap

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When the United States threatened to cancel assistance to the UN in protest, Ban capitulated and removed Israel prior to the list’s publication. Justifying the coalition’s removal, the Saudi ambassador to the UN said, “We have to ask the question: Why was Israel removed from the list last year?”
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« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 02:35:03 pm by Loud Whispers »
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Zangi

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2016, 04:11:22 pm »

Hey, if Israel can get away with its systematic suppression and marginalization of +million people, 'collateral damage' in war time can also be overlooked in the same exact way.
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nenjin

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2016, 05:37:44 pm »

It's too bad membership and funding are not one in the same, that you can pull your funding for the UN while still holding a seat in it. Giving money to the UN should be part of being a member, scaled to the country's ability to pay. I think it's ok to disagree with the UN but to undermine it in such a half-assed way is lame, by the US or anyone else. If you don't like UN policy, get it changed or leave the UN. It's like someone in America going "Well I [have an opinion] about the bathroom bill, and I'm not going to pay my taxes until they change it!" If you don't want to pay taxes as a US Citizen, then stop being a US Citizen. If you don't like Union policy, leave the Union. (As much as it will probably screw you trying to get a new job in a Union town.) Enjoying the benefits of membership without yourself contributing to the collective well being is crap.
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Strife26

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2016, 05:39:18 pm »

So the UN gets to run a protection racket on the entire world? No one's tax money is really their own?

No thank you.
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Flying Dice

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2016, 06:16:39 pm »

Same essential issue as what killed the LoN: a lack of authority over the states that it's supposedly intended to arbitrate and rein in. If you can just strong-arm the UN into letting you or your friends get away with ethnic cleansing and war crimes, why even bother having it? Either it needs to have sufficient power to stop members from doing whatever the hell they want, or it needs to not exist so we can stop pretending to pay lip service to the ideal of international cooperation and just admit that we're all selfish nationalistic assholes.
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nenjin

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2016, 06:21:15 pm »

Protection racket? The UN can barely stop anyone from doing anything. Membership is not required to be a sovereign nation. They don't break your legs for leaving. They don't, as a policy, make war on non-member states.

If the job of the UN is for world governments to try and form a consensus in policy matters (like, you know, identifying who cares the least about indiscriminately killing children in their wars), and deploy peacekeeping forces, to me that's the same as funding your fire department, your police or your local government.

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No one's tax money is really their own?

Because as American citizens we really have so much control over what our tax dollars do now, right? I'm not saying "let the UN levy a 7% sales tax on the world."

But consider that the US currently provides 28.38% of the UN's $8.27 billion dollar budget. That alone is an insane number when you see the next largest contributor is Japan at 10%. We already prop up the UN, so it's no surprise they took Israel off the list at our demand. (Israel, btw, doesn't even make the list at less than 2.97% of the UN's budget.)

With everyone required to pay their dues to be part of the UN, a) the US burden could lessen marginally (we would probably set the high watermark for what you'd pay in), b) nations do not have the option of pulling their funding and damaging the UN while still being allowed to manipulate it and c) it actually gives the UNs decisions weight. It gains negotiating power because your money isn't the ax you hold over its neck. When the US or Russia decide they're going to do whatever they please, they would have to literally give the finger to the entire world and leave the UN, rather than just going "We're going to do it. Oh and....we won't be contributing to the UN for the next couple years. Things get tight on a war time budget. You know how it is."

It's the same social contract that exists in every modern society, except on a global scale. Which is partly the reason I don't think the UN is effective in its current state, or any state: it doesn't actually function like a global society.

My reasoning is why I personally decided not to get into journalism and media after college. After realizing that advertising revenue meant more to most papers/websites than what they report, how they report or how they frame their reporting, I decided I didn't want to work in an industry that was basically beholden, on a daily basis, to someone else's purse strings. That you'd end up being forced to do something you didn't want to do....like invalidating a list of war crimes by ignoring the truth.

The UN is a like a broke-ass waiter dealing with a table of rowdy jerks who have been coming there for years, and when he asks them to keep it quiet and civil they go "You want your tip or not? Then shaddap!"

edit

Lol, that link, it's even right there.

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Every Member State is legally obligated to pay their respective share towards peacekeeping. This is in accordance with the provisions of Article 17 of the Charter of the United Nations.

The General Assembly apportions peacekeeping expenses based on a special scale of assessments under a complex formula that Member States themselves have established. This formula takes into account, among other things, the relative economic wealth of Member States, with the five permanent members of the Security Council required to pay a larger share because of their special responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security.

Now, maybe the US wasn't talking about revoking its share of the peacekeeping budget, but I think the principle is largely the same.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 06:52:57 pm by nenjin »
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Vilanat

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2016, 02:48:39 am »

The U.N is a joke. Saudi Arabia is heading the Human Rights Council ffs. I am glad the U.S can block this extremely biased and hijacked body.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2016, 04:36:11 am »

The U.N is a joke. Saudi Arabia is heading the Human Rights Council ffs. I am glad the U.S can block this extremely biased and hijacked body.
Muh patriotism
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Sheb

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2016, 04:38:38 am »

The U.N is a joke. Saudi Arabia is heading the Human Rights Council ffs. I am glad the U.S can block this extremely biased and hijacked body.
Muh patriotism

Vilanat is Israeli IIRC. Given the Arab State's tendency to use Israel as scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in the Middle East, and the number of Arab States in the UN, his position make sense.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2016, 04:42:34 am »

That doesn't really help, I have a pretty low opinion of Israel as well :P
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Sheb

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2016, 04:45:31 am »

That doesn't really help, I have a pretty low opinion of Israel as well :P

The 'Muh Patriotism' criticism doesn't make a lot of sense then though.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2016, 04:57:17 am »

Eh. Israel's done some pretty shitty things (West bank, etc.) that should really be worthy of UN sanctions. If the US is able to usurp the UN it undermines the UN's authority, which is bad precedent... unless you're a nationalist.

Obviously the Arab states should probably be sanctioned more harshly, but undermining the UN's authority is not a good way of enforcing the UN's authority.
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Sheb

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2016, 05:06:28 am »

Eh. Israel's done some pretty shitty things (West bank, etc.) that should really be worthy of UN sanctions. If the US is able to usurp the UN it undermines the UN's authority, which is bad precedent... unless you're a nationalist.

Obviously the Arab states should probably be sanctioned more harshly, but undermining the UN's authority is not a good way of enforcing the UN's authority.

I agree with you on that one, but the amount of attention lavished to ISrael by the general assembly is out of proportion.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: United Nations related nonsense thread
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2016, 05:10:48 am »

the amount of attention lavished to ISrael by the general assembly is out of proportion.
I suppose so.

Do we have any good ideas as to why? Is the General Assembly made up of Nazis or something? Or Arabs?

...

Hang on a minute
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