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[levraininjaneer]

I don't much like Dwarven Reactors, but no hate if you do.

What I would not mind, though is an inter-cavern waterwheel.

You can connect a channel two a lake in, let's say the first cavern. With a floodgate installed too.
You then lead this channel downwards to a lake in the second cavern. Somewhere in the middle you install a waterwheel (or several, if you want). As I understand it, if both lakes are connected to the map edge, the top lake will refill slowly and the bottom lake will "absorb" all water coming into it.

This will then therefore provide a sustainable source of power underground that can be turned on or off as required (specifically if you have, like I do, always FPS problems).

Variations could be to, instead of connecting to a lake at the bottom, to connect to an evaporation chamber or to a resevoir tank that is equipped with pumps to pump your water back up... or both, with a switching option.

[Bumber]

Pretty sure it's going to impact FPS because the surface of the top lake isn't under pressure. You're better off draining from the map edge with fortifications than pouring down all the way to the next cavern level.

[levraininjaneer]

Ah, right: I forgot about the fortifications trick. That is a good choice, yes.

What you say about the top lake: do you mean that there will be a lot of flow because it will take awhile to refill and therefore there will be a lot of flow on its surface?

This could be mitigated by trying to find a smaller lake, or by "once off" capturing a reserve and then using only that (and pumping it back up).

[PatrikLundell]

If you're pumping the water back up you're creating a water reactor...

I usually induce flow in slits in the aquifer to get no flow water wheels. My rationale is that it's probably more work to do that than to lead the aquifer water to the map edge, and it should have a very small FPS effect.

[levraininjaneer]

Yes, I realise that, in principle it is the same when you pump the water back up. But I'll only be doing that to avoid FPS issues. The thermodynamicist in me cannot accept the classic dwarven reactor, but can be persuaded that it would have been possible to use the water in a cavern for a small stream to power a single mill-stone, especially if you can turn it on/off, which is perfect for a millstone, which you only need to use 5% of its existence, if even that much.

 I'm just trying to find the way that has the smallest averse effect on my FPS to do this.

[Bumber]

The flow trick gives the absolute best FPS with least exploit. Intake/Outtake Control are bridges sealing the water in:



The water gets stuck thinking it's still filling from and pouring off the map. The setup is thermodynamically logical. All you have to do is pretend the water is still moving instead of blocked off.

What you say about the top lake: do you mean that there will be a lot of flow because it will take awhile to refill and therefore there will be a lot of flow on its surface?

It has to flow unpressurized from the map edge to wherever your drain hole is. It will work better if you put the drain closer to the edge, at which point you might as well use the fortification trick.
It might actually work okay if your upper lake is at least two z-levels deep, but I'm not sure. My current fort only has a lake at the bottom, and it's shallow. Nor am I sure the lower level is going to absorb the water unless you limit its ability to spread outwards (i.e., build a tube down to the bottom lake's surface.)

[levraininjaneer]

Looks pretty cool.
I'm assuming that, on the right at the bottom of the picture your outtake drains off the map edge?
Also, if you open the intake, and close it, but never open the outtake, no power will be generated, yes?

[Bumber]

Looks pretty cool.
I'm assuming that, on the right at the bottom of the picture your outtake drains off the map edge?
Also, if you open the intake, and close it, but never open the outtake, no power will be generated, yes?

Yes and yes.

The permanent flow begins as soon as the water reaches the map edge. The intake should be closed first, followed by the outtake (preferably before you start getting 6s in your trough.)

My setup produces 2000 power, which is more than I'll ever need (unless I decide to bring my magma minecarts to the surface via tracks instead of hauling. I consider impulse ramps a similar breach of conservation.)

[levraininjaneer]

O wait: do you mean that this can work even if there is no 6'es?
I thought you'd need at least one.

[Fleeting Frames]

Flow can be both temporary and permanent tile attribute - in case of rivers, such as the artificial one described above, it is permanent.

If the water doesn't reach a drain such as with screw pumps (map edge or aquifer tile), it is temporary, for so long as the tiles keep changing.

I consider impulse ramps a similar breach of conservation.

Makes sense, even if I personally prefer them over building windmills or water wheels to give dwarves watt-I mean, Urists. What do you think about cavern plants and animals, especially on sites without magma pipes, do you usually elect to play without caverns and dwarves modded to use surface plants?

[ManaUser]

Makes sense, even if I personally prefer them over building windmills or water wheels to give dwarves watt-I mean, Urists. What do you think about cavern plants and animals, especially on sites without magma pipes, do you usually elect to play without caverns and dwarves modded to use surface plants?

That's quite a bit easier to justify that an outright perpetual motion machine. Presumably cavern plants live off nutrients in the rocks. Maybe water trickles down from from the surface to replenish it. And there could be a whole ecology below the visible scale—tiny bugs, mold, microbes—which would h ave access to raw materials beyond what's right in your farm plot.

[levraininjaneer]

Flow can be both temporary and permanent tile attribute - in case of rivers, such as the artificial one described above, it is permanent.

If the water doesn't reach a drain such as with screw pumps (map edge or aquifer tile), it is temporary, for so long as the tiles keep changing.

I consider impulse ramps a similar breach of conservation.

Makes sense, even if I personally prefer them over building windmills or water wheels to give dwarves watt-I mean, Urists. What do you think about cavern plants and animals, especially on sites without magma pipes, do you usually elect to play without caverns and dwarves modded to use surface plants?

Ah, ok I understand about the flow now. Clever!

What do you mean about dwarfs modded to use surface plants?

[PatrikLundell]

Flow can be both temporary and permanent tile attribute - in case of rivers, such as the artificial one described above, it is permanent.

If the water doesn't reach a drain such as with screw pumps (map edge or aquifer tile), it is temporary, for so long as the tiles keep changing.

I consider impulse ramps a similar breach of conservation.

Makes sense, even if I personally prefer them over building windmills or water wheels to give dwarves watt-I mean, Urists. What do you think about cavern plants and animals, especially on sites without magma pipes, do you usually elect to play without caverns and dwarves modded to use surface plants?

Ah, ok I understand about the flow now. Clever!

What do you mean about dwarfs modded to use surface plants?

If you create a world with no caverns you won't get any dwarven civs, because their existence rely on cavern plants. Thus, to have no caverns but still have dwarves, you need to mod dwarves to use surface rather than subterranean plants as a prerequisite.

[levraininjaneer]

Ah, but why would you want that? Caverns are where all the fun is at!

[Fleeting Frames]

Ah, but why would you want that? Caverns are where all the fun is at!

1) FPS. Even if you don't reveal the caverns in your fort, they will still have things happening in them. Removing them entirely will reduce pathfinding animals, flowing water and generally make world thinner.
2) Avoiding FBs in worldgen coming out and killing your single-fortress civilization.
3) Reducing the lethality of sieges. With caverns off, it would be hard for cave-dragon riding goblins to lead a troll battalion when they don't exist.
4) More stone and ores to mine without taking extra step across z-levels. Caverns can be relatively low on empty space, granted, but that still requires securing them and planning how to mine multi-z pillars.
5) Variety/walking distances. Caverns can be somewhat distant while a savage/evil biome surface can be right outside, providing different animals than caverns do. Additionally, surface plants have much greater variety than cavern ones, though this doesn't bar one from using both of course.
6) Thematics - whether it is perhaps considering chemical process insufficient for tree and megabeast growth without light or wanting to run an aboveground fortress (with perhaps elven or human civ[BLAZECOOKS has this a fair bit, though still making use of the caverns eventually]), it can be pleasing to play without plump helmets.

+ probably some others I'm forgetting.