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[somemildmanneredidiot]

We'll probably want to collect it all into one post for simplicity. If we are going to use the untrained specialists we should make sure that they are specifically assigned as well as draw up a specific "the good engineer is spending the turn teaching the newbies" bit. We'll also want one last confirmation on our helmet numbers which might affect our production details.

Other than that we should be good to go.

[Aseaheru]

If Im looking at the right plan, more votes and a production plan are needed.

Restatements of exactly what is being done with everything would also be nice to have with the votes.

[3_14159]

If Im looking at the right plan, more votes and a production plan are needed.

Restatements of exactly what is being done with everything would also be nice to have with the votes.

Roger-roger.

Spoiler: Production Plan (click to show/hide)

Produces:
    75mm Pattern 806 Field Gun Ratio: 195/turn (+75/turn)
    M1 Pattern 806 HMG: 360/turn (+240/turn)
    Swordfish B TBD: up to 3.9/turn (some spent on refitting to C)
    Revolving Rifle: 0/turn (-1,500/turn)
    Trench Broom: ~180/turn
    Torpedo: 18.75 launchers/turn
    Jupiter Pattern 803 Automatic Pistol: 0/turn (-600/turn)
    Helmet: 10,000/turn (-1,000/turn)
    80mm mortar: 200/turn
    Pattern 807 engine: 300/turn (+300/turn)
    Pattern 808 RS-MP: 20/turn (+20/turn)
    Make of 799 Artillery Tractor (our engine): up to 30/turn, plus refit (+up to 30/turn)

On-Site factory complex
        - General (300pp): Torpedo (18.75 launchers/turn)
        - General (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (30/turn)
        - General (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (30/turn)
        - General (300pp): Pattern 808 RS-MP (20/turn)
        - Small-Arms (600pp): M1 HMG (120/turn)

    On-Site Artillery Complex
        - Artillery (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (30/turn)
        - Artillery (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (30/turn)
        - Artillery (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (30/turn)

    Off-site (dispersed)
        - 2x General (250pp): 80mm mortar (total 200/turn)
        - 2x General (250pp): Helmet (total of 10,000/turn)
        - 1x General (250pp): Pattern 803 Trench Broom (~180/turn)
        - 4x General (300pp): M1 HMG (total 240/turn)

    On-site Naval
        - Dockyard (300t): Swordfish B TBD, help with refit to C: up to 1.3/turn
        - Dockyard (300t): Swordfish B TBD, help with refit to C: up to 1.3/turn
   
    Off-site Naval
        - Dockyard (300t): Swordfish B TBD, help with refit to C: up to 1.3/turn

    Truck Complex
        - Engine (300pp): Pattern 807 Engine (300/turn)
        - 1x Vehicle (300pp) Make of 799 Artillery Tractor for new engine plus refit (up to 30/turn)
        - 2x Vehicle (300pp): 75mm field gun Ratio (less effective; 45/turn)

Spoiler: Engineering Assignment (click to show/hide)

Swordfish C
    1x basic naval
    2x basic

Swordfish C
The latest of the Swordfish revisions. To be done is, in order of priority:
- Fix the Ratio mount powering.
- Include the new 40mm cannon if designed, on a special naval mounting.
- Add the Pattern 808 radio.
This will probably include a redesign of the electrical systems; if they need it, they are authorized to use a Pattern 807 engine to power a generator.
Should time remain, they are to start refitting B Swordfishs to C standard, as are the Dockyards.

Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon
    3x basic and talented firearms engineers
    1x basic and highly talented firearms engineer

Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon
The Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire gun, firing the new Pattern 809 40x160mmR shell, is a multi-purpose gun. Its primary mounting point are our Swordfish boats, where they should serve against both torpedo boats and the - soon-expected - aeroplanes. On land, it is going to be used in the Landshark tank or, on a dual-purpose mount, against both other tanks and aeroplanes.
The gun barrel has a length of 40 calibres, and fires 40mm shells. It is air-cooled (should make it lighter than the QF 2-pounder) and its firing rate is therefore restricted to 50 rounds per minute from a disintegrating belt. It is mounted on a dual-purpose mount, which allows it to engage both aircraft and ground targets.

Pattern 809 40mm shell
    1x basic ammunition engineer
    3x basic engineer

Pattern 809 40x160mmR shell
Shell to be fired by the Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon. Available in armour-piercing, high-explosive and anti-aircraft shrapnel.

Mule truck
    3x basic engineer

    Mule Redesign
    The goal of the engineers is to finish the Mule design. To do so, they are allowed to deviate from last turn's very specific motor instructions. Possible alternatives are coupling both motors, or both motors powering the rear axle. This is to be decided by the engineers doing so. Any additional time should be spent on making it as reliable and cheap as possible.

Pattern 809 Tank Landshark
    1x good engineer
    1x armour engineer
    3x basic engineer

Pattern 809 Tank Landshark
Looking at the performance of the Make of 799 artillery tractor on uneven ground, it appears we could build a vehicle that is able to cross no-man's-land. Imagine it armoured to withstand enemy rifle fire, and armed to clear the trenches!
The Landshark mounts a single Pattern 807 engine, which drives the two-thread layout. A driver and commander/gunner make up the crew. The commander/gunner has two available weapons: The new 40mm cannon, and a Pattern 806 HMG (Should the 40mm gun be too late, keep the large-ish turret ring, and include a second machine gun instead). Armour is supposed to be increased on the front (about 22mm), and less at the back and on top (down to 8mm). Total weight is probably going to be less than 10 tons, keeping weight and cost down, and mobility up.

Tractor adaption:
    1x basic

The tractor is fine, but its engine's rubbish. This engineer should take the large engine, and replace it with our Pattern 807 engine. This should be as simple as possible - just remove the original engine, weld in a frame to hold the new one, and connect it to the drive shaft.

Training
    1x good engineer
    1x untrained but amazingly talented firearms expert
    1x untrained munitions expert, maimed
    1x untrained but talented firearms expert
    15x Newbie

Many of our engineers are fine, but several lack experience. The good engineer is supposed to teach the other ones those tricks you learn from experience. The goal is to promote as many of the untrained/newbies to at least basic competency.

Classroom
      1x untrained architect

Building a classroom/teaching facility for better teaching (not in the office) for the next turns.

I've seen three people voting; all of them for the above (except for some including the classroom; and some not).
In addition, the production plan is only in case we do not have enough helmets for all of our soldiers; otherwise I'm reassigning those production lines.

[milo christiansen]

Go, go plan PI!


On the subject of rifles:

Why don't we just make a M1 Garand?
If you want a gun with magazines we could make a T20E2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#T20E2
Which is just a Garand that can use BAR magazines.

That would be fine, but I want to reiterate my call for a more modern caliber. The Garand used big heavy rounds that are not much better than what we have already (OK, a little better).

Trust me, we don't want bolt action. They are quickly becoming obsolete in our time period. They will continue to be used for a long time yet, mainly due to production issues (to many other things to build, like tanks) and weird ideas like "the soldiers will use too much ammo".

I have a K98 (one of the the best bolt action military rifle ever made), and once had a Schmidt-Rubin (another fine rifle that I only sold because the ammo was way to expensive). The K98 was a very well made example of the type, almost new (issued to an SS trooper straight from the concentration camp where it was made, then he then promptly got his ass shot and his rifle shipped to the states as a souvenir (it has some really interesting stamps on the receiver/barrel)), even so it was far slower to fire and reload than most of my other rifles. The Schmidt-Rubin (which handily fits our time period) was faster to fire, but every shot still required you to work the bolt. On the Schmidt-Rubin unlocking the bolt quickly required a tricky little jerk (quick and smooth once mastered, but likely to move the rifle between shots), whereas on the K98 you could throw the bolt with a couple of fingers in one glass smooth movement (slower, but easier).

Despite both rifles being excellent examples of their kind, if I was going to war with one of the rifles I have owned over the years I would choose one of my SKSs (all of which were cheap, inferior examples of their kind). Why? Well for one thing the ammo for the SKS is a lot lighter/smaller, for another it can fire much faster if needed, and it loads just as quickly (all three rifles mentioned here had fixed mags).

I say we go with the best semi-auto we can design (and don't think we can't design one either, look at the Mondragón rifle, if Mexico could do it in 1904, we can now). The rifle we design now will have to last use the whole war.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Here are the current votes and proposals.

Spoiler: Votes (click to show/hide)

Design Proposals as of now:
D1.1: 809 model auto grenadier (requires shell design)
D1.2: Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon (requires shell design)
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
D2: Mule Redesign
somildwhatever, 3_14159
D3: Swordfish C
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
D4: Pattern 809 Tank Landshark
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
D5: Classroom
somemildwhatever

Training:
All Untrained
All Untrained except specialists
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
None

There was some discussion about having our architect make a classroom so I added that. I noticed some ither voting as well but thought that I should let people put their votes in this format rather than try to vote for them.

Here's a vote set up for the production plan.

Spoiler: Production Plan Vote (click to show/hide)

Yes
somemildwhatever
No

If no, what would you rather we do?

I realize I didn't comment on the grenade launcher. I like the idea of a troop deployable grenade launcher. As a crew serviceable weapon, I feel like the HMG with AP rounds will serve the same role just as well and that if we're aiming for an aircraft weapon, it would probably be best done when we have an aircraft to test it with.

It looks like we'll have quite the solid basis for a rifle design next turn.

[Aseaheru]

 The Garand was intended for a different round, but MacArthur went and put his foot down and they redesigned it for .30-06. Initially it used .276 rounds.

[milo christiansen]

Note that .276 is also known as 7x51.Too large in other words.

Also note that the Ruger mini-14 (in 5.56x45) and the M14 (in 7.62x51) are both Garand variants!

If we wanted to base something on the Garand the mini-14 would be perfect as it has a removable magazine and is chambered in a modern military caliber. Simple, reliable, and with an option for select fire. Perfect for our purposes.

EDIT: Delta Force has a few mini-14 in inventory and some marine embassy guards are issued them, weird...

EDIT2: How about 6x45 in a mini-14 equivalent? None of the tech required is beyond what we can do...

[3_14159]

*snip*

A very good point. For me, that definitely calls for a semi-automatic design.

I realize I didn't comment on the grenade launcher. I like the idea of a troop deployable grenade launcher. As a crew serviceable weapon, I feel like the HMG with AP rounds will serve the same role just as well and that if we're aiming for an aircraft weapon, it would probably be best done when we have an aircraft to test it with.

Currently, we do have the HMGs as a primary fire support. However, later on, I'd definitely like to see something like a 40mm grenade launcher.
(I'm currently imagining a tank with such a launcher mounted instead of the anti-aircraft machine gun as an urban combat variant. Scary!)

Updated my vote.

Spoiler: Votes (click to show/hide)

Design Proposals as of now:
D1.1: 809 model auto grenadier (requires shell design)
D1.2: Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon (requires shell design)
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
D2: Mule Redesign
somildwhatever, 3_14159
D3: Swordfish C
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
D4: Pattern 809 Tank Landshark
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
D5: Classroom
somemildwhatever, 3_14159

Training:
All Untrained
All Untrained except specialists
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
None

Spoiler: Production Plan Vote (click to show/hide)

Yes
somemildwhatever, 3_14159, milo christiansen
No

If no, what would you rather we do?

[milo christiansen]

(I'm currently imagining a tank with such a launcher mounted instead of the anti-aircraft machine gun as an urban combat variant. Scary!)

You mean like a MK19? Indeed, very scary.

[Aseaheru]

Milo, your post requires editing.

[milo christiansen]

No it doesn't (well, not anymore )

[Aseaheru]

 Theres a cool new video on the final American form of the Johnson LMG that Forgotten weapons put out(the video, not the gun)

 Putting that here because, well, its cool and this is the best spot I can think of. Plus, looking at the less known weapons of the world always gives me ideas.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Nice 

[Amperzand]

Something notable with semi-auto versus manually-operated of any variety is that, in my experience, an inexperienced operator will have their aim disrupted entirely every time they work the action on a manual gun, whereas a semi-auto allows them to simply pull the sights back and fire again. Semi-auto allows considerably greater effectiveness, and if we adopt a good light-cartridge semi-auto, we could be current or, perhaps, even have an advantage for decades.

Also notably, we are in exactly the right situation for an early adopter of semi-auto guns: A very small country without hundreds of thousands of "Good enough" guns being produced ever year the order to change isn't given, in possession of an active research initiative and notable local arms industry.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Voting? 

Spoiler: Votes (click to show/hide)

Design Proposals as of now:
D1.1: 809 model auto grenadier (requires shell design)
D1.2: Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon (requires shell design)
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
D2: Mule Redesign
somildwhatever, 3_14159
D3: Swordfish C
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
D4: Pattern 809 Tank Landshark
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
D5: Classroom
somemildwhatever, 3_14159

Training:
All Untrained
All Untrained except specialists
somemildwhatever, 3_14159
None

Spoiler: Production Plan Vote (click to show/hide)

Yes
somemildwhatever, 3_14159, milo christiansen
No

If no, what would you rather we do?