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Author Topic: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-GAME DEAD  (Read 62207 times)

Aseaheru

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I think I got the numbers right, but I need to check again. If not, well, this is why computers run most games with piles of numbers like this.
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Highly Opinionated Fool
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Amperzand

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Basically, my view is that the thing cannot currently have an effect with so few guns, and honestly submachine guns are pretty major regardless. That said, dropping weapon production is entirely valid.

Actually, we might want to cultivate civilian arms manufacture, get some of our production handled by factories we don't directly manage. Basically every nation in recent history has ended up contracting with various companies to make their military hardware.
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Muh FG--OOC Thread
Quote from: smirk
Quote from: Shadowlord
Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com

somemildmanneredidiot

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I agree that SMGs are very effective in this situation and once we can start making Mules, I'd be more than happy to shift production over to the Trench Broom. If the 40mm quickfire goes off without a hitch, we might even be able to spend a turn redesigning the Broom to take advantage of the disintegrating belt and get that drum magazine back on it. If we do that, I'd like to modernize our 12.5mm rounds and see about adapting the Trench Broom over to the 12.5x30mmA. We have so many firearms engineers that I feel like we can secure some pretty effective arms for our infantry.

I feel like we're a bit small to have enough infrastructure for it to handle civilian arms manufacture, but if we can get it set up it would be useful.

Something we should consider making soon is an optical system. Presumably we don't have telescopes in use? Getting some scopes out there and then refining that into binoculars should provide a fair amount of information for command units especially when used in concert with the new radio.

@Aseaheru: Do we have telescopes or similar glassware? Can we pawn off anything else to civilian manufacturers beside uniforms?
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

3_14159

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I'm fine with uping the weight to get both. Variety will have a very nice utility on the battlefield.
All right.

Quote
To this measure, I think we should drop Revolving Rifle, Trench Broom, and (if 98 000 is the correct equipment stock) Helmet production. That will free up a fair amount of pp that we can use to get HMGs and Ratios to protect our lines until we get the Mule up and running.
This is a good point. We can produce one HMG for every 3.5 Trench Brooms. That is pretty nice.

I think I got the numbers right, but I need to check again. If not, well, this is why computers run most games with piles of numbers like this.
Thank you. And yes, there's a reason I don't compute anything myself anymore :-)

I agree that SMGs are very effective in this situation and once we can start making Mules, I'd be more than happy to shift production over to the Trench Broom. If the 40mm quickfire goes off without a hitch, we might even be able to spend a turn redesigning the Broom to take advantage of the disintegrating belt and get that drum magazine back on it. If we do that, I'd like to modernize our 12.5mm rounds and see about adapting the Trench Broom over to the 12.5x30mmA. We have so many firearms engineers that I feel like we can secure some pretty effective arms for our infantry.
If we have the engineers, I'd rather design a new standard troop rifle. Cheap, probably bolt-action, with a smaller round than 10mm.

Now, my first attempt at a production plan, taking into account the changes suggested by somemildmanneredidiot:

Spoiler: Production Plan (click to show/hide)

The main disadvantage is dropping the production of the Revolving Rifle (previously 1.5k/turn) and the Pistol (previously 600/turn), and slightly decreasing the helmet production (by 9%). In return, we're surging production of the Ratio (+60%, almost doubling our stocks) and of HMGs (tripling our production, and almost tripling our stocks), building a stockpile of engines, and producing some artillery tractors. Oh, and producing radiosets.
This is, by design, a fairly defensive plan - an alternative would be to produce more Trench Brooms instead of HMGs (we could produce roughly 850 by dropping HMGs).
Thoughts?
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Dropping the Jupiter wasn't something I'd though of for some reason and for this defensive plan I'm all for it.

If we end up dropping Helmet production, I think we should use that 500pp to make more radios to help provide better coverage throughout the lines.

I'll be entirely honest, I really like the fact that our rifles use such a large caliber. We've gotten the round to about as far as it can be taken, and I'd rather continue to make rifles around it. Plus it allows for ammunition exchanges between the HMG and our rifles. On the small arms front, I'd like to try to bring things down to two different types of basic ammunition  (10mm rifle and 12.5mm pistol) with specialized rounds being incorporated from those two.

If we do go for a different caliber of rifle ammunition, we should try to get it running as soon as possible. It takes time for our ammunition factories to start producing a new round (the 75mmR being retooled still is confirmed to be correct, as is our lack of grenade production) so the sooner we set up the final product the better.

If we do go for a new round, I think next turn we should design the new rifle, round, and try to sort out any other munition revisions that we've started on (the mortar) or might need (40mm, tracer, AP) on top of any revisions (working on the radio would be nice) or building production we need to do. We certainly have the firearms experts for it.
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

Aseaheru

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@Aseaheru: Do we have telescopes or similar glassware? Can we pawn off anything else to civilian manufacturers beside uniforms?

 Nothing military grade.

 A note on the trench broom: with its lack of ejection port, the only place a belt can go out is its barrel.
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Amperzand

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So a redesign if we want to use it as anything else.
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Muh FG--OOC Thread
Quote from: smirk
Quote from: Shadowlord
Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com

somemildmanneredidiot

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So a redesign if we want to use it as anything else.

Sounds about right. It could stand some retuning anyway.

Unless anyone else has any suggestions, I'd like to start the voting.

Spoiler: Votes (click to show/hide)
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

3_14159

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I'm, well, basically going to vote the same things: The 40mm QF, Swordfish redesign, finishing the Mule and the tank. I'm also going to vote for (at least) training all untrained (except specialists, should this be necessary.).
Spoiler: Votes (click to show/hide)

There are several things that we had thought about which don't have proposals:
- Jeep equivalent
- New standard rifle
- Small torpedo boat
- Improved infantry equipment
- Destroyer
- finish mortar round redesign

- Ammunition design facility
- Training facility
- Airfield/Plane design facility
- Electronics factory
Should anyone write them up, we can add them to the voting list.

Using the examples above, we can assign the engineers as mildmannered had suggested:

Swordfish C
    1x basic naval
    3x basic

Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon
    3x basic and talented firearms engineers
    1x basic and highly talented firearms engineer

Pattern 809 40mm shell
    1x basic ammunition engineer
    3x basic engineer

Mule truck
    3x basic engineer

Pattern 809 Tank Landshark
    1x good engineer
    1x armour engineer
    3x basic engineer

Tractor adaption:
    ??

A single basic engineer might be switched from the Swordfish C to the tractor adaption.
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milo christiansen

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Annnnd, we will probably go with plan PI once again... Where would we be without plan PI?
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Spoiler: Untrained Specialists (click to show/hide)

If we don't have these guys train, I'm thinking we can have A assigned to the 40mm, B to the 40mm shells, C to the Landshark, and D can try to make a singular up to 300pp factory to help provide meta data about what a single engineer can build.

Annnnd, we will probably go with plan PI once again... Where would we be without plan PI?

We definitely would not be running around in circles. Rectangles maybe.
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

Aseaheru

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 Im thinking some form of polygon.
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Amperzand

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I would say that 10x60mmR is likely to be both gross overkill and horrendously effective in the light antipersonnel role. It makes a great HMG round, but if we're firing it from service rifles, we probably want to at least design a muzzle brake and some kind of weight-reducing protocol.

Actually a proposal might be to keep the current rifle as a designated marksman's weapon, then design a rapid-firing, lightweight "Carbine" firing some sort of intermediate, or at least comparatively lightweight (See Italian and Japanese development in the 1890s/1910s) cartridge as our new service rifle.
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Muh FG--OOC Thread
Quote from: smirk
Quote from: Shadowlord
Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com

somemildmanneredidiot

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I like that idea, though we're going to need several more factories to accommodate the additional necessary production (which is something we planned on anyway, so no loss). I'm thinking we can refine or redesign the Revolving Rifle to use a detachable magazine and either be gas operated or use a bolt action. When we introduce optics, we can do a minor refinement to make the firearm better able to fit the scope. Muzzle brakes apparently make sabot rounds develop a tendency to explode at the muzzle brake, so we might want to keep that round for the Carbine.

The BAR was apparently selective fire, so we could start our carbine off as an attempt for a gas operated select fire light infantry weapon. We'll probably want to delay Revolving Rifle redesigns to focus all of our specialists on the Carbine if we do want to go for such a design, as we'd be basically aiming for a lighter, smaller BAR.
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

3_14159

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If we don't have these guys train, I'm thinking we can have A assigned to the 40mm, B to the 40mm shells, C to the Landshark, and D can try to make a singular up to 300pp factory to help provide meta data about what a single engineer can build.
Or we could have D build a classroom.

Im thinking some form of polygon.
An n-gon, for n --> infinity. In other words, it makes no difference in the limit  :D

I would say that 10x60mmR is likely to be both gross overkill and horrendously effective in the light antipersonnel role. It makes a great HMG round, but if we're firing it from service rifles, we probably want to at least design a muzzle brake and some kind of weight-reducing protocol.

Actually a proposal might be to keep the current rifle as a designated marksman's weapon, then design a rapid-firing, lightweight "Carbine" firing some sort of intermediate, or at least comparatively lightweight (See Italian and Japanese development in the 1890s/1910s) cartridge as our new service rifle.
Agreed. Since experience from WW2 seems to imply that most infantry fights occur at under 400 metres, power and range of the rifles are less important than reduced recoil and firing rate. This makes our 10mm rifle rounds too heavy (large recoil, weight and range). In comparison, a smaller round seems to be useful.
Our enemies have chosen a 7.62x51mm (the later 7.62mm NATO) round, which they use both in their main infantry rifle and machine guns.
I'd suggest we choose a new round which is definitely less powerful than our 10mm round (keeping it for anti-materiel and sniper duties and for the HMGs). This new round should be usable with both our main infantry rifle and with a light machine gun once we design it. There are a few sizes we could choose: Close to 7.62 (possibly even adapting the enemy round), or a 6.5mm round like the Swedish/Norwegian 6.5x55mm. The latter also gives us examples both as a bolt-action rifle, semi-automatic rifle and several machine guns.

I like that idea, though we're going to need several more factories to accommodate the additional necessary production (which is something we planned on anyway, so no loss). I'm thinking we can refine or redesign the Revolving Rifle to use a detachable magazine and either be gas operated or use a bolt action. When we introduce optics, we can do a minor refinement to make the firearm better able to fit the scope. Muzzle brakes apparently make sabot rounds develop a tendency to explode at the muzzle brake, so we might want to keep that round for the Carbine.
I think that this redesign for the Revolving Rifle would probably be a completely new design. Still, probably worth it in a few turns.

Quote
The BAR was apparently selective fire, so we could start our carbine off as an attempt for a gas operated select fire light infantry weapon. We'll probably want to delay Revolving Rifle redesigns to focus all of our specialists on the Carbine if we do want to go for such a design, as we'd be basically aiming for a lighter, smaller BAR.
Hm. It's a difficult decision - on the one hand, the select-fire capability is useful (there is a BAR 6.5mm variant, though we might also use the Feodorov Avtomat as an example). However, this will probably be fairly expensive, maybe between 1 and 2PP per rifle. A bolt-action design, while less effective, should be buildable for about 0.5PP per rifle; a semi-auto design probably between those two. This means we might think about developing the semi-auto design first, for replacing all of our blackpowder weaponry, followed by the more expensive select-fire weapon.
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