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[shoulderboulder]

for a new rifle we could make something like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusil_Automatique_Mod%C3%A8le_1917

[Aseaheru]

@Aseaheru: I know I asked it before, but I forgot the answer: Do firearms engineer have a speciality in artillery/large-calibre guns, too?

Nope. Firearms experts deal with everything up to about 50mm, cannon experts go from 20mm up.

@Aseaheru: Looking over the production, I noticed the following: The helmets should probably be 9,800 (nine thousand eight hundred) instead of 98,000 (ninety-eight thousand). The four dispersed 300pp factories are, to my knowledge, small-arms factories, as is the 600pp production line in the core. I also forgot to account for one of the 250pp offsite factories in the production plan.

The total was listed. Also, only two factory complexes are specialized, one is for trucks and one is arty.

Edit:@Aseaheru: Another question; how many effective PP does a vehicle production line have when not producing vehicles?

Almost certain I wrote this somewhere... Ahwell.  As I cant find it, Im gonna say that it can make 75%

Edit 2:@Aseaheru: I had the idea of adapting the artillery tractor to our own Pattern 807 engine. Ideally, I'd like to set one or multiple of the vehicle production lines to produce the artillery tractor (without engines), and the engine line to the Pattern 807. Once the engineers have designed the - simple - adaption, the factories would then put the engines into the tractors. This'd reduce overall production numbers, but allow us to actually produce them with the new engines. Is this even a game-legal idea?

Yep, that would work.

[milo christiansen]

How about something like the SKS? (but with a detachable magazine, which some SKS rifles actually had)

I used to have one of them (with bayonet and grenade launcher, both of which I removed), and aside from feeling like the flat receiver back was going to slam you in the eye when firing (I got used to it in a hurry though) it was a really nice (cheap!) gun.

Yes I know, post-WWII, but the SKS is mechanically simple and easy to produce in large amounts. Certainly not beyond our abilities. We probably want to design a shorter rifle cartridge for a semi-auto anyway, and 7.62x39 is nice and versatile.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Well, having roughly 3/4s of our assigned groups fail drastically is rather frustrating. Nothing to do about it but to keep at it.

@Design Suggestions: At the top of page 10, if using the largest posts per page, I have a list of most if not all design suggestions from over the course of the game. You have about everything mentioned for this turn that I can think of.

Would a vehicle design facility be a usable idea, considering our less than success in that department.

@Aseaheru: We have an architect specialist. Reviewing the list, said specialist has disappeared. If we could get a list of what the specialists that we have are specifically specialized in, it would be much appreciated as well. Did we get any Monarchy equipment from overrunning their first layer of trench lines?

I want to take all of the untrained personnel and a good engineer and have them sit down for a year so they obtain basic competency, but I don't know if we can afford to not use 19 personnel for a turn. On the other hand, we failed a great deal last turn such that we basically didn't use 10+ of our engineers, so it might not really matter that much.

So assuming we do that, we're left with 20 personnel.

1 basic naval, 3 basic: Swordfish turret upgrades (for the 75mm cannon and the 40mm mounting) and radio emplacements
3 basic and talented firearms, 1 highly talented and basic firearms: 40mm quickfire (I would love to go for the autocannon, but we can't afford the failure right now)
1 basic munitions, 3 basic: 40mm shells (HE and AP)
1 good, 1 armor, 2 basic: Mule design and tractor engine adaptation (We've had people do minor related things before, so hopefully it won't be too much. We also need something on Mule scale. Maybe having two engines each set up with a chain, one to each axel will work?)

I would have loved to start on the tank this turn, but we need to get our logistics in order before we go for ground breaking designs like that. If the Mule doesn't work for a second turn, we should probably drop it, make a stronger engine, and try again with a single engine.

[3_14159]

Also, only two factory complexes are specialized, one is for trucks and one is arty.

Very good to know.
Thanks for the other answers, too!

How about something like the SKS? (but with a detachable magazine, which some SKS rifles actually had)

Something like the SKS, or the Fusil Automatique, or the SVT-40. Yep.

I want to take all of the untrained personnel and a good engineer and have them sit down for a year so they obtain basic competency, but I don't know if we can afford to not use 19 personnel for a turn. On the other hand, we failed a great deal last turn such that we basically didn't use 10+ of our engineers, so it might not really matter that much.

I'd like to do so, too. Is it worth it? Hm. Probably.

1 basic naval, 3 basic: Swordfish turret upgrades (for the 75mm cannon and the 40mm mounting) and radio emplacements
3 basic and talented firearms, 1 highly talented and basic firearms: 40mm quickfire (I would love to go for the autocannon, but we can't afford the failure right now)
1 basic munitions, 3 basic: 40mm shells (HE and AP)
1 good, 1 armor, 2 basic: Mule design and tractor engine adaptation (We've had people do minor related things before, so hopefully it won't be too much. We also need something on Mule scale. Maybe having two engines each set up with a chain, one to each axel will work?)

I would have loved to start on the tank this turn, but we need to get our logistics in order before we go for ground breaking designs like that. If the Mule doesn't work for a second turn, we should probably drop it, make a stronger engine, and try again with a single engine.

In principle, that works. However, I'd definitely, definitely like to get a tank design done this turn, since I think it might be the most important thing we do. For me, basically, the main priorities are (in descending order): Mule, tank, Swordfish, 40mm gun.
I'd say we write up the proposals for the designs, then see how many want which, and try to assign the engineers. I'll write up some of them tomorrow.

[Funk]

 
------- 809 model auto grenadier -----------

An up scaled mk2 Trench Broom of much heavier construction, it uses a special ammo type, 809 "Special" grenade.
Like the odd 10x30mm smokeless "Special", it contains its own propellant, in this case the bullet takes the form of a lengthened 808 patten rifle grenade.
The gun mounts a smaller magazine of 10 rounds and has a shorten barrel, but the gun still weighs in at 260 kg.

[Aseaheru]

 260kg? Thats heavy.

[Amperzand]

Sounds like a vehicle mounted or crazy heavy crew-served weapon.

[Funk]

Sounds like a vehicle mounted or crazy heavy crew-served weapon.

The idea is to copy the German 3.7cm Krupp Sockelflak

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Looking it over, I actually forgot to assign 4 basic engineers. We can fit in the tank on my plan, so it's just a matter of juggling around engineers. I'm thinking we assign the good, basic armor, and 3 basics to it while having 3 basics work on the Mule design (specifically incorporating the engines) and if they have time, adapting the tractor to our engine.

Calling for a vote on the following:
Assigning 1 good engineer and the 19 untrained engineers  (4 specialists, 15 newbies. I miscounted previously.) to Training, using the good engineer to train the other 19 to basic competency.

If it's decided not to use these 20 in this fashion, debating about the use of the other 20 is potentially pointless.

[3_14159]

------- 809 model auto grenadier -----------

An up scaled mk2 Trench Broom of much heavier construction, it uses a special ammo type, 809 "Special" grenade.
Like the odd 10x30mm smokeless "Special", it contains its own propellant, in this case the bullet takes the form of a lengthened 808 patten rifle grenade.
The gun mounts a smaller magazine of 10 rounds and has a shorten barrel, but the gun still weighs in at 260 kg.

Interesting, and I didn't know about the Sockelflak. It does have a disadvantage: The low-ish weight of 260kg is bought with a pretty low muzzle velocity of only 355m/s. Compared to the 40mm QF 2-pounder, for example, at over 700m/s muzzle velocity, the weapon will probably have difficulties against both airplanes (AA ceiling of 2.2km, compared to the 40mm QF's almost 4km) and tanks. It is a superior airplane-mounted gun (since the muzzle velocity doesn't matter as much); except for the feed system which we are free to change.

As an alternative, let me propose the following (closely modeled on the QF 2-pounder naval gun):

Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon
The Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire gun, firing the new Pattern 809 40x160mmR shell, is a multi-purpose gun. Its primary mounting point are our Swordfish boats, where they should serve against both torpedo boats and the - soon-expected - aeroplanes. On land, it is going to be used in the Landshark tank or, on a dual-purpose mount, against both other tanks and aeroplanes.
The gun barrel has a length of 40 calibres, and fires 40mm shells. It is air-cooled (should make it lighter than the QF 2-pounder) and its firing rate is therefore restricted to 50 rounds per minute from a disintegrating belt. It is mounted on a dual-purpose mount, which allows it to engage both aircraft and ground targets.

Pattern 809 40x160mmR shell
Shell to be fired by the Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon. Available in armour-piercing, high-explosive and anti-aircraft shrapnel.

Mule Redesign
The goal of the engineers is to finish the Mule design. To do so, they are allowed to deviate from last turn's very specific motor instructions. Possible alternatives are coupling both motors, or both motors powering the rear axle. This is to be decided by the engineers doing so. Any additional time should be spent on making it as reliable and cheap as possible.

Swordfish C
The latest of the Swordfish revisions. To be done is, in order of priority:
- Fix the Ratio mount powering.
- Include the new 40mm cannon if designed, on a special naval mounting.
- Add the Pattern 808 radio.
This will probably include a redesign of the electrical systems; if they need it, they are authorized to use a Pattern 807 engine to power a generator.

Pattern 809 Tank Landshark
Looking at the performance of the Make of 799 artillery tractor on uneven ground, it appears we could build a vehicle that is able to cross no-man's-land. Imagine it armoured to withstand enemy rifle fire, and armed to clear the trenches!
The Landshark mounts a single Pattern 807 engine, which drives the two-thread layout. A driver and commander/gunner make up the crew. The commander/gunner has two available weapons: The new 40mm cannon, and a Pattern 806 HMG (Should the 40mm gun be too late, keep the large-ish turret ring, and include a second machine gun instead). Armour is supposed to be increased on the front (about 22mm), and less at the back and on top (down to 8mm). Total weight is probably going to be less than 7 tons, keeping weight and cost down, and mobility up.

Design Proposals as of now:
D1.1: 809 model auto grenadier (requires shell design)
D1.2: Pattern 809 40mm quick-fire cannon (requires shell design)
D2: Mule Redesign
D3: Swordfish C
D4: Pattern 809 Tank Landshark

Looking it over, I actually forgot to assign 4 basic engineers. We can fit in the tank on my plan, so it's just a matter of juggling around engineers. I'm thinking we assign the good, basic armor, and 3 basics to it while having 3 basics work on the Mule design (specifically incorporating the engines) and if they have time, adapting the tractor to our engine.

Nice find!

Calling for a vote on the following:
Assigning 1 good engineer and the 19 untrained engineers  (4 specialists, 15 newbies. I miscounted previously.) to Training, using the good engineer to train the other 19 to basic competency.

I second this, with the provision of possibly taking the untrained specialists for projects this turn.

Edit: @Aseaheru: Does it help you if we include the real-life systems we were inspired by?

[Slick]

Wait how big of a turret are you expecting cause I'm not entirely sure we can fit a belt fed cannon and a coaxial machine gun. Also do remember that turrets add a substantial amount of weight which may make it heavier then the light tank your planning...it is supposed to be a light tank right?

[Funk]

We have differing views, i'm after an automatic grenade launcher and you want a 40mm autocannon.

I'm not sure that we should go for a 40mm auto cannon, it'll likely be to heavy for mounting on any planes, too weak to fight tanks and limited to direct fire.

Remember that we haven't see any enemy planes, so there probably like early ww1 planes and fly low and slow vs later planes.

[3_14159]

Wait how big of a turret are you expecting cause I'm not entirely sure we can fit a belt fed cannon and a coaxial machine gun. Also do remember that turrets add a substantial amount of weight which may make it heavier then the light tank your planning...it is supposed to be a light tank right?

Ah, damn it. As before, I was going for something like the Renault FT, which I originally read as mounting a (lighter than our) 40mm cannon and a machine gun, when it's actually been the 40mm or a machine gun. We could either revise the weight upwards (probably about nine tons), produce two variants, one with only the 40mm cannon or one with only the machine gun.

We have differing views, i'm after an automatic grenade launcher and you want a 40mm autocannon.

I'm not sure that we should go for a 40mm auto cannon, it'll likely be to heavy for mounting on any planes, too weak to fight tanks and limited to direct fire.

Ah, yes. Well, originally I wanted a replacement for our 37mm blackpowder cannon, to mount on the Swordfish. This is to fight against their boats, against whom the 37mm blackpowder cannon appears to be insufficiently powerful. Since this implies some design parameters (a fairly high muzzle velocity) which makes them suitable to AA and very-early-AT duty, I simply wanted to use it for both.


@Aseaheru: I was looking over the helmet numbers again. Apologies if I insist on the point, and apologies again should I make it sound like not trusting you.
According to my numbers, we should have produced a total of 11,000 helmets last turn, enough to equip roughly 1/4 of our soldiers. Now, according to your turn update, we have 98,000 helmets, enough to equip our soldiers twice over. I had previously assumed that should've been 9,800 helmets (11,000 produced, 1,200 lost). If it's really 98,000 helmets, we can stop producing them.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

I'm fine with uping the weight to get both. Variety will have a very nice utility on the battlefield.

I can concede the use of the untrained specialists for this turn. I really would like to have them trained (one of them blew his arm off due to lack of safety training apparently) but they can mean the difference between done in one turn and done in two. Any of them whom we can't find a use for like the untrained architect (we could throw em at trying to make a General factory I suppose) we should probably keep in training.

I'm split about the very amazingly talented but untrained firearms expert. I REALLY want to get them to basic asap, but that specialization bonus could make the 40mm all the better.

In regards to increasing Trench Broom production:

I'm against it. The Trench Broom is specifically an offensive weapon designed for CQ combat to clear out their trenches. Right now we've made solid gains into their first layer of trench lines due to night raids. Strategically, it would be best to lock down the territory we've gained, secure our logistics situation, and then commit to the advance with the Mule on the production line.

To this measure, I think we should drop Revolving Rifle, Trench Broom, and (if 98 000 is the correct equipment stock) Helmet production. That will free up a fair amount of pp that we can use to get HMGs and Ratios to protect our lines until we get the Mule up and running.