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Author Topic: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-GAME DEAD  (Read 62267 times)

Aseaheru

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #450 on: August 11, 2016, 07:46:21 pm »

 A reminder that powered heavier-than-air flight is in its... I think its its fifth year of actually being possible.

 Yes, resources should be in next turn.
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #451 on: August 11, 2016, 07:51:12 pm »

So just imagine how surprised they'll be when we get out a working bomber  :P

I was going to suggest that we set up for airships as we're setting up the related infrastructure anyway, but then I remembered that we're not getting that design due to the crash.

I wonder if our government is going to give us more engineers when they assign resource management to us as well.

Edit:
Here's the tank I was thinking of. Take that, make is a fair bit wider and a bit longer, throw a couple bulbs on the side angles for the HMGs, replace the Browning with a turreted 40mm, and there we go.

Here's a collection of all design ideas so far.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 03:57:17 am by somemildmanneredidiot »
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

milo christiansen

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #452 on: August 12, 2016, 01:24:12 pm »

As far as tanks go, we should build the most modern design we can. WWII tanks differed from WWI tanks mostly in that they built upon earlier work and ideas. We already know what works IRL, so we can skip the poorly performing intermediate steps as much as possible. Basically the only reason not to make a late WWII medium tank, is that we don't have the industrial capacity to produce as many of them as we need, and we don't have an engine powerful enough to drive it (we have a suitable tank gun in the form of the Ratio).

For now we can build a light tank based on one of the better WWI designs, with the idea that it will be replaced as soon as we can get a proper tank engine designed. The Renault FT is probably the cheapest, simplest, but still effective light design we can manage to power effectively. The Ford 3 ton was never produced in quantity because the US tank corps though it didn't meet their needs, who are we to argue with the experts? (AKA, I think the three ton sucks, and could be outperformed by a Frontline (my proposed armored Mule), much less a proper tank design)

Speaking of tank engines: Am I the only one to notice that the Swordfish is powered by steam turbines? This means that it would be possible (albeit difficult) for us to design a gas turbine engine! It would probably be way too complicated for mass production (until the late 1930's gas turbines were lab curiosities), so a diesel would be better, but it is an interesting idea...

We need a heavy diesel engine sooner or later, but there are a bunch of things we need more.

About production: I propose we reserve a portion of our engineers for increasing our production. That way we slowly but surely build up an overwhelming amount...
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #453 on: August 12, 2016, 02:10:44 pm »

I mentioned the 3 ton because I'd managed to find it and Pi had asked about the tank image I had in mind previously. I'm all for using the Renault FT as the base concept for our first tank.

I briefly mentioned a gas turbine before in regards to actually making a specific design for our ship propulsion system as we should do that sooner rather than later. The problem is that we're skating by on GM kindness right now and don't really have a starting point to build off of because we just threw a bunch of engineers on the project and said do the thing. I'm thinking in regards to this area, we should do something like "Where We Are Now=>Better Steam Turbine System=>Gas Turbine System=>Better Gas Turbine System". Until we get more engineers though, it's going to be a very low priority for a few turns.

My thinking is that we should build up to around 50 engineers (using the potential draw of our Academy and making a Recruitment Center thing after this upcoming turn), at which point we can do something like a 25-20-5 split, for reasonable designs/revisions-production-special projects respectively. Any more engineers we acquire after that can be split among production and special projects as we see fit.
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

milo christiansen

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #454 on: August 12, 2016, 03:18:37 pm »

... at which point we can do something like a 25-20-5 split, for reasonable designs/revisions-production-special projects respectively. Any more engineers we acquire after that can be split among production and special projects as we see fit.

That seems reasonable...
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #455 on: August 12, 2016, 10:40:58 pm »

Yup! Of course, things are going to go drastically wrong while we try to rangle together the engineers, so who knows if that will actually work out?

Edit: So the problem with making a 400mm cannon isn't that we might not have the tech, or that it took the USA, the UK, France, and Nazi Germany multiple years to make them (let alone our industrial capacity), nor the fact that they had a tendency to blow up in the barrel.

The problem is apparently, we'd need a computer to properly calculate where this thing would hit. So a 400mm cannon is definitely going to need to be a multiple turn heavy investment Special Project if we ever get around to the idea.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 12:30:00 am by somemildmanneredidiot »
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

Slick

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #456 on: August 13, 2016, 02:21:57 am »

The guns don't need to be on ships at least initially we could make a coastal gun in let's say 406 mm and after some improvement mount it on a ship.
Something like these for instance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_M1919_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_Mark_2_gun

Some even had gun data computers.
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3_14159

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #457 on: August 13, 2016, 04:33:06 am »

My thinking was to use the fighter as a scouting plane while the bombers focused on ground targets, at least until the Monarchy started bringing out their own planes. Focusing on one plane (I'm thinking the bomber) will provide better results. I'll make sure to include that as part if the write up for the facility.
I was thinking that our first plane will probably be a good-enough fighter for one, maybe two turns before being relegated to bomber/scout duty. But we'll see.
(It is possible that we'll face some planes ourselves next turn, though.)

As far as tanks go, we should build the most modern design we can. WWII tanks differed from WWI tanks mostly in that they built upon earlier work and ideas. We already know what works IRL, so we can skip the poorly performing intermediate steps as much as possible. Basically the only reason not to make a late WWII medium tank, is that we don't have the industrial capacity to produce as many of them as we need, and we don't have an engine powerful enough to drive it (we have a suitable tank gun in the form of the Ratio).
Well, there are a few issues: Our engine technology isn't as good as WW2 engine technology, meaning less reliable, heavier and worse engines. Our materials knowledge isn't as good as WW2's, meaning worse armour. Same with our mechanical knowledge (for suspensions etc).
But, on the other hand, tanks are always defined by their adversaries: You only need enough armour to avoid being killed by them, a large enough gun to kill them, and enough mobility for everything else. This can be seen throughout World War II tank development, for example with the upgunning and uparmouring of the Panzer III from a 37mm to a 75mm cannon.
Lastly, I don't think the Ratio serves as a good tank cannon - it's comparatively low-velocity and (probably) fairly heavy.

... at which point we can do something like a 25-20-5 split, for reasonable designs/revisions-production-special projects respectively. Any more engineers we acquire after that can be split among production and special projects as we see fit.

That seems reasonable...
Seems like a reasonable long-term plan; I'd add training up the Newbies. On the other hand, no plan survives contact with the math enemy.

The guns don't need to be on ships at least initially we could make a coastal gun in let's say 406 mm and after some improvement mount it on a ship.
Something like these for instance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_M1919_gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_Mark_2_gun

Some even had gun data computers.
Personally, I'd rather build a medium-calibre naval gun first - something like 125 or 150mm guns. My reasoning would be expense (since they'd be cheaper), logistics (since we would mount the same ones on destroyers) and efficiency (since the enemy won't field the battleships these guns are meant to counter). Additionally, we can use these guns as heavy artillery on land.
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #458 on: August 13, 2016, 05:05:36 am »

I'm looking over the engines that planes used in WW1 and we're either going to need to grab a fairly more powerful engine (100hp minimum) or hope our guys have mastered in-concert engine use. Granted, our engine is about perfect for the latter role, but I don't think it's going to work out as well as we'd like. (Though with our recent advance, we might have actually gotten our hands on a truck or two, so we might be able to remake or even improve their engines.)

2,000kg weight for the Ratio last I checked. I'm pretty sure the recoil system is a fair chunk of that weight. Or it would explain it at least.

Ideally, once the recruitment facility/program/propaganda is set up and once we get a solid number of incoming recruits, we'll be able to have a cycle of new basic engineers graduating just in time for the next group of newbies to start classes. Plans and enemies though, plans and enemies.

Artillery wise, what I really want is something with about 50km of range so we can start firing on their guns and hopefully begin taking away some of that industrial focus advantage they've managed. Unfortunately everything seems to be either 25km or shorter or 100km or further (those being Rail Guns and Defensive Coastal Guns). So we'll probably have to invent it ourselves.

Artillery based aircraft defenses apparently only really came into their own round the mid 1940s with Flak munitions being somewhat ineffective til then. The best I can think of is setting up incendiary muntions, but the upcoming resource system may make the immediate creation and deployment of such unlikely and expensive. With some luck, that will also limit any potential deployment of aircraft or armor of the Monarchy next battle turn.

(I'm less concerned about any mobile armor they might deploy because we have accurate, decently powerful, direct fire artillery deployed. That was the first successful response to tanks if my memory serves.)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 05:15:47 am by somemildmanneredidiot »
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

Amperzand

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #459 on: August 13, 2016, 05:21:40 am »

The most effective AA gun development of the second world war was proximity fuses.
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #460 on: August 13, 2016, 02:36:38 pm »

Prioximity fuses being a good 40 years ahead of us is what has me concerned. Looking over AA systems in WW1, it seems that our options are either send fighters to combat them or hope our ground arms can land a lucky hit.

Writing here to remember: We aren't taking terrain into account. Creating something that will allow our units to maneuver through mountains easier will provide us with a plethora of flanking opportunities.

Edit: Dew rag might solve helmet sponginess and also make our guys looks like pirates, so two good reasons there. Also the whole prevents sweat in eyes thing.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 05:18:01 pm by somemildmanneredidiot »
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

Slick

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #461 on: August 13, 2016, 09:31:16 pm »

Hey I just had a thought how hard do you guys think it would be to make a Z Battery equivalent:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_Battery

Speaking of AA perhaps the 37mm could be converted into an flaming onion equivalent:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_onion

Just so I'm sure its more or less a Hotchkiss gun right:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_gun

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/26853-developers-better-balloon-defense-flaming-onions-please/

The link on the rise of flight forum is okay right I'll remove it if it isn't because it raises some interesting facts.

Edit:
Maybe we could make a 75mm AA gun sorta like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors_75_mm_Model_1929
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 12:28:55 am by Slick »
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somemildmanneredidiot

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #462 on: August 14, 2016, 02:39:21 am »

I think mobile machine gun turrets like the M45 are probably going to be our most effective AA weapons system, especially with Tracer rounds. We might end up designing an upscaled HMG with something between 12 to 15 mm rounds to help it have the momentum to hit plane heights, though our 10mm might get the job done.

Depending on what they design their aircraft out of, designing tracer rounds, ala flaming onion, for the 40mm should work out decently, especially when we get the munitions test facility running.

The more I read and think about it, the more I think we should design a balloon or two. Having observation balloons for watching the front from a few km away with an optics system and radio would allow our military to do a fair amount of passive information gathering with low risk. As a Special Project, I'm thinking of a material/troop transport airship to allow us to pass through the mountains and bypass their lines for coordinated flanking maneuvers.

Binoculars might be something we want to set up if we're still getting the optics stated before.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 02:45:44 am by somemildmanneredidiot »
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"As to why you'd want to [throw your sword in combat] at all? The answer is pretty simple: There's someone you want to stab, but they're all the way over there, and walking is for peasants." - Starke of How To Fight Write

Amperzand

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #463 on: August 14, 2016, 02:48:12 am »

So, aside from a few exceptions, like airships, WW1-era aircraft are plenty fragile enough to take out with small arms. 10x60mm rifle rounds should do fine unless they develop self-sealing fuel tanks or figure out practical armored aircraft.
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Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com

3_14159

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Re: Design Engineers of The Republic (Weapon Design Game)-BATTLE REPORT 808!
« Reply #464 on: August 14, 2016, 07:52:55 am »

I'm looking over the engines that planes used in WW1 and we're either going to need to grab a fairly more powerful engine (100hp minimum) or hope our guys have mastered in-concert engine use. Granted, our engine is about perfect for the latter role, but I don't think it's going to work out as well as we'd like. (Though with our recent advance, we might have actually gotten our hands on a truck or two, so we might be able to remake or even improve their engines.)
Agreed. At 50hp, our engine's fairly low-powered. It is light-weight, though; it should work for a light tank. For a plane, we should probably look into upgrading that: About 130HP should work (like the Clerget 9B). However, this'll push back the fighter another year.

The most effective AA gun development of the second world war was proximity fuses.
Agreed; I've heard it was about five times as effective as normal fuses. On the other hand, it was cutting edge even during WW2, and we're going to have to wait a few decades on that.


http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/26853-developers-better-balloon-defense-flaming-onions-please/

The link on the rise of flight forum is okay right I'll remove it if it isn't because it raises some interesting facts.
Of course it's okay to post it :-)
That's a very nice find - the Hotchkiss gun should be equivalent to our currently-used anti-torpedo 37mm cannons (except that we have to use blackpowder). This lets me hope that a replacement 40mm cannon will allow us a pretty effective AA defense.


As to large-calibre AA guns: Those are, I believe, mostly a reaction to the flight ceilings of WW2 bombers. These necessitate a high muzzle velocity (which also allowed these guns to act as anti-tank guns), and a large calibre to do damage. In comparison, lower-calibre and fast-firing weaponry should still allow us to defend against their initial planes.
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