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[Funk]

The SKS is a good rifle but the Winchester Model 1905 has detachable magazines.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

I think it was meant my suggestion of an effective cost effecient selective fire carbine, using the example of the BAR as a select fire infantry weapon. So basically a modernish assault rifle.

Producing Trench Brooms to cover the CQ automatic role instead of trying to get everything into one firearm is a good option and counterpoint.

Are there any more votes for design decisions? For engineer training?

[milo christiansen]

The SKS is a good rifle but the Winchester Model 1905 has detachable magazines.

I didn't mean that we should use exactly the SKS, it was just a good example of a military semi-auto (also, some models of the SKS used detachable magazines), another fine example would be an M14 (with select fire disabled) or a M1 (without the stupid en bloc clip). Basically any simple, rugged, accurate semi-auto would do (but chambered in a lighter round than most rifles were back then).

I suppose the model 1905 would fit that description (rechambered in smaller military caliber), but it's hard to tell as the wikipedia page for it is fairly uninformative.

[Amperzand]

A lot of what would prevent us from making a modern assault rifle sort of thing is our current materials science. WW1 steel was considerably worse than that used even in the 30s. Basically, making a durable automatic rifle that weighs less than eight pounds and doesn't cost an obscene amount is very much the realm of Space Age materials, polymer, carbon fiber, aluminum alloys, and so on. The lower-power cartridges certainly help as well, of course.

[milo christiansen]

Like I said, a simple semi-auto in a modern military caliber.

The result would be lighter and more reliable (smaller cartridge == less wear and tear from each shot) than most rifles that could be considered to be contemporary to our time period.

[Wolfhunter107]

The SKS is a good rifle but the Winchester Model 1905 has detachable magazines.

I didn't mean that we should use exactly the SKS, it was just a good example of a military semi-auto (also, some models of the SKS used detachable magazines), another fine example would be an M14 (with select fire disabled) or a M1 (without the stupid en bloc clip). Basically any simple, rugged, accurate semi-auto would do (but chambered in a lighter round than most rifles were back then).

I suppose the model 1905 would fit that description (rechambered in smaller military caliber), but it's hard to tell as the wikipedia page for it is fairly uninformative.

All three of those are about 35-40+ years away. Remember, we're at WWI levels of technology, and I really doubt that trying to skip 40 years of progress would end well. If we're going to change out our rifles, then we should aim for a bolt-action, which we know how to do, so we can get it into service with a minimum of hassle and then get back to making the enemy respond to our advances, rather than playing catch-up to them.

[Aseaheru]

 A note on the winchester 1905, one of the rounds it was chambered in was turned into the 30 carbine.

 Also, atleast at the start of this year the enemy was on the backfoot. Depending on what their "allies" did they situation may have changed slightly.

[milo christiansen]

There were some semi-autos back then, remember the only difference between full auto and semi-auto is a mechanism to reengage the sear after every shot. Also there was a fluff note a few turns back about a small country on the other side of the world switching to semi-auto rifles as their standard armament.

30 carbine, if you look it up, was disliked for lack of stopping power.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

Our pistol is also automatic (semi-automatic?) so we do have experience in that department.

While they are on the backfoot at the moment, that's going to last for at most one more turn (possibly being resolved next battle phase if they attempted illumination shells last design phase) unless they botch their attempt to counter our illumination shells. Our goal in the mean time should be to secure the territory we've gained, therefore logistics developments, defensive production, and naval refinements.

[Amperzand]

It is worth noting that from a carbine-length barrel, .30 carbine has more muzzle energy than a .357 magnum revolver.

[Slick]

Why don't we just make a M1 Garand?
If you want a gun with magazines we could make a T20E2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#T20E2
Which is just a Garand that can use BAR magazines.

Even then we should make a Bolt-action probably something along the lines of an Springfield/Lee–Enfield crossed.
Edit:
Actually many of the problems associated with the Bar was usually do to odd choices by the Army such as being adamant about any modifications to the basic BAR be capable of being retrofitted to earlier M1918 guns with no loss of parts interchangeability or that the gas chamber never being changed to stainless steel.

[3_14159]

A reminder that you also need to deal with the established military when it comes to new arms.

Ah, very interesting!
What, exactly, is their opinion on the calibre discussion?
(I can already guess: "It depends on what kind of rifle you produce")

Ultimately, though, that's actually what I believe the important thing to be:
We need to decide on the mechanism (bolt-action, semi-auto or auto), and a rough calibre size (5.5mm, 6.5mm, 7.5mm, 8mm, whatever). Ultimately, the main thing that'll matter for the bullet itself is the roll, not whether it's 6.5mm or 6.3mm.

[Amperzand]

One tactic would be to develop several cartridges and use whichever works best.

[somemildmanneredidiot]

But that would in turn require engineers for testing rather than designing.

I'm neutral and unknowledgable about the current bullet discussion with the only comment of it possibly being easier to design a rifle that helps compensate for the recoil while being on budget than designing a new bullet and rifle and then adjusting for glitches.

I'm for semi-auto. Our pistol means we have some idea of what we're doing and our aim is to get lead down range better than the other guy. Rate of fire helps with that.

[3_14159]

One tactic would be to develop several cartridges and use whichever works best.

That would be the way to go if we'd want to find the best one - but we only need one that is good enough.

As such, the choices we'll face next turn are, in my opinion:
1) Calibre
    a) small calibre (5.5-6mm)
    b) medium calibre (6-7mm)
    c) large calibre (7-8mm)
    d) very large calibre (about 10mm)

2) Action
    a) Bolt-action
    b) Semi-automatic
    c) Automatic/select-fire

Whether we'll use a 6.5 or 6.6; a 5.45 or a 5.56; a 7.92 or a 7.62 round doesn't really matter in the end.
As such, a few thoughts on the rifles:
Our current revolving rifle should be about 8kg loaded, and be effective out to 1500m. In a minute, you should be able to fire ten to twelve aimed shots.
Assuming we use bolt-action rifles (with a separate, ten-round magazine), the small-calibre variation should be about 2.5kg, effective range of 500m; the medium-calibre 3kg/1000m; the large calibre one 3.5kg/1200m. All of them should be able to fire twenty aimed shots; they should cost at half or less of the RR.
Semi-automatic weapons should be about 25% more expensive, and be able to fire either thirty aimed or about eighty unaimed shots.
An automatic weapon should still be cheaper than the RR, but be almost 75% more weight (with a 30 round magazine). It won't allow you to fire more aimed shots, but about 120 unaimed ones.

Those are all very, very rough numbers, and depend mostly on the rolls we'll make. However, those should give us an idea on what the rifles will look like.

For me, my preference would probably be to make a semi-automatic weapon in a medium calibre, ideally a historical one for more examples and better acceptance. By putting our four talented firearms engineers on that, we should be able to design a pretty good rifle.


Anyways, any thoughts on the engineering assignment/production plan? Anything else needed from us to continue, Aseaheru?