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Goblins, evil kidnappers...

Necromancers, uber-evil mages...

Skaven, underground-living ratmen with clans...

Insect hive, zerg/tyranid-style...

Naga, water-based magic snakemen...

[Urlance Woolsbane]

I voted "Bad Idea." I fear that the sort of mod that wouldn't simply be included wholesale in Masterwork is the sort that would have its selling points obfuscated by the surrounding hustle and bustle.

[Dirst]

I voted "Bad Idea." I fear that the sort of mod that wouldn't simply be included wholesale in Masterwork is the sort that would have its selling points obfuscated by the surrounding hustle and bustle.

It depends on what it means to preview a mod.  Things like First Landing or Trashworld are total conversions that you can't really do piecemeal whereas a player can go a while without even realizing that The Earth Strikes Back is active.

The only solution I can think of is a zipped save as the preview, which also requires enough documentation to explain what the hell is going on.

[Meph]

I mean adding a small part, maybe 1 civ, a few creatures, a few items, a few plants... make a note in their desription "GENESIS" or "FIRST LANDING", so that if players can identify where they are from when they encounter them while playing.

All of these would be OFF by default, merely an option to give other mods more exposure. You see cool plants, see that they are from mod X, think that the content is good, and that you maybe want to try out mod x.

[chaosfiend]

The biggest thing I wanna know, is will you be able to have information easily available to tell people what mods are going to have massive conflicts with each other in one way or another? Because I'm sure there will be many folk that will just see multiple new features that you put in, and not read on them at all knowing what they do, (see the several Preta threads), or what pieces might conflict.

[daisha]

I mean adding a small part

I think "preview" mods would be ignored by those players who are competent to configure mods on their own and frustrating to those players who are not because they'd find themselves unable to access the full content of the mod if they liked the preview.  (Of course, it might encourage a sliver of the users to develop said competence, but unless education is your lifequest probably not enough to justify the labor.)

I think you could use your popularity as the big fish in the DF modding community to get community buy-in for an open source mod manager/launcher.  If you maintain the whole thing on github, people would have the option of adding a module for their own mod to your launcher, putting their mod within two or three clicks of anyone running your launcher.

[Fairin]

I mean adding a small part

I think "preview" mods would be ignored by those players who are competent to configure mods on their own and frustrating to those players who are not because they'd find themselves unable to access the full content of the mod if they liked the preview.  (Of course, it might encourage a sliver of the users to develop said competence, but unless education is your lifequest probably not enough to justify the labor.)

I think you could use your popularity as the big fish in the DF modding community to get community buy-in for an open source mod manager/launcher.  If you maintain the whole thing on github, people would have the option of adding a module for their own mod to your launcher, putting their mod within two or three clicks of anyone running your launcher.

http://ckan.org/

what is it whats it do? .. this is what it does for Kerbal... http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/90246-the-comprehensive-kerbal-archive-network-ckan-package-manager-v1180-19-june-2016/

[Meph]

I know Paul, after all, he is on bay12 too. Urist McTeellox.

I'm not going to do a all-out mod-launcher for everyone. First of all Mac and Linux users would complain because I'd do it in VB, second I'd have a lot more work on my hand, third I'm not even sure if I have the ability to do so and fourth because PeridexisErrant has been working on that on and off for a year now and its still not there.

[Rakden]

About 'factions', succubi and warlock problem:

I see Succubi as 'refuges' from Hell. In my opinion, they are not completly evil - they are only trying to survive on hostile surface, where nobody wants them. Also, they love beautiful things like any other race (glass/gem stuff) and are quite tolerant (they 'accept' other races into their cities, right? ) I'm not quite sure if they should be considered as 'evil' race, but of course, they can't be good either. I think that they could fit into 'neutral' or 'Slavers' faction.

And Warlocks. In Masterwork, Warlock = Undead. But, honestly - they only want immortality, knowledge and/or power. They are like mad scientists/mages but that doesn't mean that they are completly evil. I think that they could fit into 'Slavers' faction too - and trade with Succubi (you know, warlock-demon pacts and stuff).

But if Warlocks/Undead and Succubi/Demons are more neutral than evil, who should be the 'Evil'?
Both of them want to survive, but neither wants destruction or doom.


The 'evil' race should cooperate with Clowns to bring Fun into world. Or at least: they should try to bring Circus to surface. So I think that some 'Cult' or 'Sect' who want to see the world burn could be good. 'Cult of Carp' maybe?

Sorry for any mistakes, because English is not my native language.

[Meph]

Ehm... Rakden, its nice that you are so tolerant, but Succubi torture people, ally with demons and corrupt/mutate captured prisoners into monsters. Warlocks kill everything they see, write books with blood on human skin, etc...

I'm not sure how much more evil things could be.

[Rakden]

Well, of course they are both evil.

Succubi are merciless for their enemies, they corrupt them and sometimes they seek allies among demons from Underworld. And they use souls in their dark rituals.
But they do it to survive, and they do feel pain when their friends or pet die (even if it is corrupted enemy or simple monster from hell).
When I played as them, it felt no different from playing as Dwarves or Humans. But still: do they want destruction? Or do they want to bring their 'friends' to the surface? I doubt. After all, they had a reason to escape from Hell. The same reason why they do not want to go back.

But Warlock on the other hand are different from Succubi. They are Undead, 'cursed' creatures. They want death to the living and destruction of surface. They seek power to bring more and more chaos into world. They are cruel to their prisoners and they use souls in their workshops. Both their enemies, and their own. Also, they do not feel anything about death of their own people - after all, they can revive them later, right?


So - they both may be evil. And they are dangerous to others. But all Succubi do is to survive. While Warlocks want destruction.
I think that Succubi should be in 'Slavers' faction and Warlocks in 'Evil' faction - just like before.

And honestly: do anyone think that Succubi will want to call or bring HFS?
And do Warlock will be able to controll their guests?

I doubt.

But Warlocks will surely try to do it.

[Meph]

And honestly: do anyone think that Succubi will want to call or bring HFS?
And do Warlock will be able to controll their guests?

I doubt.

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but isnt this like trying to interpret a literary text while the author is sitting next to it; it would make more sense to ask the author than say "this is what the author meant".

[daisha]

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but isnt this like trying to interpret a literary text while the author is sitting next to it; it would make more sense to ask the author than say "this is what the author meant".

Authorial intent doesn't count for much in the world of hermeneutics, unfortunately.  It is absolutely ordinary for critics to discount an author's own opinions about their world, particularly with regard to the moral quality of a character or civilization.  One of the most interesting books out there imo (in the sense that it's interesting to me that it exists, not that it's my favorite book) is Kirill Eskov's The Last Ringbearer which is the tale of the War of the Ring told from the perspective of Mordor.  Of course, Mordor considered from the perspective or Mordor is more benign than Mordor from Gandalf's perspective.

I, too, raise my eyebrow at the idea of a civilization that self-IDs as evil.  I don't question that we should consider the succubus evil, because they eat our fear and pain.  But to them, our fear and pain is just their food.  Objectively, there's not a ton of difference between a human's beef cookbook and a succubus's torture manual.  Evil is a question of faction membership, which is how you have it, so thumbs up.

[cerevox]

Relativistic morality. Succubus aren't evil, they are just doing the things that are appropriate for their culture. You can't blame them for torturing and warping their prisoners into twisted forms, or of giving each other massages with the blood of their foes as oil(which would be quite a cool mechanic for the lounge idea under consideration, use a prisoner as a reagent.) It is simply a part of their culture. No other culture has the right to come in and say this is good or bad. 

[smakemupagus]

"I'd like to add partial content of major mods/total conversions, off by default, as a sneak-preview. Play it, see the content, if you like it, go and play the proper mod."

Example: "Terrible weapons" mod.  If it unlocked an industry chain where you can use cheap, maybe non-weapons grade junk metal, rocks, glass to make these peasant weapons, it would be cool.  But just dumping the whole list into the forge - meh.

"Historical weapons" -- if it unlocked different flavors of existing entities (say, 3 or 4 different "Human" entities that may or may not co-exist in a given world) with different martial traditions, maybe divergent ethics, it would be cool. 

For sneak preview of total conversions -- it works Ok if it's some sort of element that really stands alone (like a new race).  But if it's a different kind of piece like a new industry mechanic, new materials, or an extended weapon list, then it would be best if it feels connected cohesively and not just tacked on.  So without knowing quite what you have in mind i'm not sure how to cast a vote.

[Putnam]

I'd prefer as much of whatever mod of mine's included be included as possible, really.