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[Sergarr]

(even while my next RTS purchase will be Wargame: Red Dragon, which doesn't require any of that either, but is way more complex in a similar genre, so whatever)

Actually, from what I've heard, it's very much micro-intensive. There are no formation-movement features, so you have to move all your units manually. Plus, ammunition/fuel consumption means you have to micromanage supply trucks - and you do have to do that, they run out pretty fast. In addition, the entire artillery role is basically all micro - you can't just make artillery auto-support your troops or at least not efficiently, you have to manually direct all of it. Plus, there's aircraft, which also requires intense micro, to avoid running it into enemy's air defences and to make it attack right targets. And, speaking of air defences, you have to micro them, too - to turn on their radars, increasing their range, and to turn them off, to avoid being hit with HARM missiles.

Soooo I wouldn't really recommend Wargame to anyone who doesn't want to micro literally all your units at the same time.

[Greenbane]

(even while my next RTS purchase will be Wargame: Red Dragon, which doesn't require any of that either, but is way more complex in a similar genre, so whatever)

Actually, from what I've heard, it's very much micro-intensive. There are no formation-movement features, so you have to move all your units manually. Plus, ammunition/fuel consumption means you have to micromanage supply trucks - and you do have to do that, they run out pretty fast. In addition, the entire artillery role is basically all micro - you can't just make artillery auto-support your troops or at least not efficiently, you have to manually direct all of it. Plus, there's aircraft, which also requires intense micro, to avoid running it into enemy's air defences and to make it attack right targets. And, speaking of air defences, you have to micro them, too - to turn on their radars, increasing their range, and to turn them off, to avoid being hit with HARM missiles.

Soooo I wouldn't really recommend Wargame to anyone who doesn't want to micro literally all your units at the same time.

You don't have to do all that simultaneously, but you do need to maintain high situational awareness to know when to act (i.e. when to turn off your radars because a SEAD aircraft is inbound). Also commands can be queued, so artillery barrages can be followed by relocation (to avoid counter-battery fire) without too much trouble, and aircraft can be given a waypointed route to ensure a precise flight plan which maximizes damage and reduces exposure to known enemy air defense assets.

So yeah, situational awareness is king. Aside from perhaps supply management, micro isn't as important: it won't save your forces if you end up engaged unprepared. Wargame is all about having the right forces in the right place at the right time, more than anything else, and that's mainly achieved through planning and evaluating your ever-changing situation to figure out where you'll need X unit ahead of time.

[Shadowgandor]

Eh I kind of agree with Sergarr in that Wargame: Red Dragon definitely is micro-intensive. At least I found I couldn't keep up in that game. I'm doing better with DoW3, although that by itself doesn't say much. Wargame: Red Dragon is a more unique experience though and were I to have to recommend one of the two, it'd be Wargame: Red Dragon as DoW3 is a more run-of-the-mill rts. Be aware that Red Dragon requires a LOT of practice and effort to get even decent at the game, let alone the huge amount of deck customisation options that'll further complicate the game if you're willing/wanting to dive into that.

[Retropunch]

Wargame (and RD especially) does require quite a bit of micro, but mostly in terms of 'set everything up quickly'. You find yourself in long lulls with no micro, to a few rushed seconds where you need to relocate a whole load of units quickly.

It can and will determine the winner, but it's not micro as in Actions Per Minute its more in terms of 'do you know the right controls/ways to order stuff around quickly'. You need less micro the more you've played it and can see patterns emerge before they happen, as you've got more lead in time, but it still can be pretty intensive.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

In a lot of ways, Wargame (ESPECIALLY Airland Battle imo) is the best 40k game you can ask for. Honestly, every individual unit faces extermination against weapons they can't see or react to, and even with an excellent strategy or defense countless units must sacrifice their lives for victory. With an inexperienced general or one who can't manage the whole playing field, get isolated against even a slightly superior enemy force spells certain death.

[sambojin]

It really is asking for even a half-arsed mod to be attempted eventually, even if not everything will mesh all that well with the W:RD system. I might look into it, even if we're stuck with basic models for units. Anyway, back to the game at hand.....



DoW3 isn't too bad to watch streamed, but I will agree, I was wrong about the level of micro needed. I'm not sure if commentary would make it better, because there's a hell of a lot of jumping around to get everything going well, which can be hard to follow if you're not sure of the reasons for it. Harder to follow than a basic DoW1 (or armageddon mod) game, just due to the pacing and importance of individual units and abilities, or small groups of them. Plus, it's all a bit too damn shiny, but with shiny terrain as well (not nearly as organic looking as previous DoW's), so units don't stand out as well for their unit type in some cases.

IMO anyway. It's not bad by any means, but it's similar to the SC1->SC2 graphical change, that will take me a bit of getting used to. But with less distinction in some infantry types. It's good, just different, and since I haven't personally played it yet, watching streams of it still feels weird from a player's perspective (where from a commentary/observer's perspective it might be fine). I had the same thing with SC2 for a bit.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

One final note, Steel Division might actually be perfect for a 40k mod considering the new melee system.

[umiman]

Steel division has melee? That's the Eugen game published by paradox right?

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Steel division has melee? That's the Eugen game published by paradox right?

I have been led to believe they are integrating a basic melee system to account for what happens when a human wave attack connects.

[forsaken1111]

Excellent. Now just mod in some Titans and we're all set

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Excellent. Now just mod in some Titans and we're all set

Damn, they'd totally work at that scale too--wouldn't they? Alright, time to get Eugen on the phone, brb.

[Retropunch]

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but from what I can tell the Eugen system games are not really moddable - there are no proper mod kits released, and the extent seems to be editing unit values and a bit of reskinning.

It might be possible, but I think the lack of Total Conversion mods (which there definitely would be if it was at all possible) kinda puts the breaks on it. Real shame - it's such an amazing system which would be awesome for any war game.

Which is probably the reason they're not releasing it, as they want to court some actual business rather than someone make an amazing WH40K mod and then  no one need them to make it.

[Xardalas]

I have about 0% in this game, but I just got a coupon for it. 50% off. Expires at the end of the month. Anyone want it? Add me on Steam. Xardalas.

[Mephisto]

I don't know what criteria they used to give out the coupon but I received one as well. Judging by the amount of negative reviews put up today, they blasted the coupon out to half of Steam.

[Persus13]

I assumed I got it based on the fact I own DOW I and II