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6 (46.2%)

Nay

7 (53.8%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[Rolepgeek]

Honestly, making them more expensive is not my biggest concern at the moment, given how hard of a time Happy Demon is having with the Droplets. None of the ones under an essence truly seem like 'Titans' to me.

[Chevaleresse]

i mean, all of them are far beyond the abilities of a mortal or even group of mortals to fight, which is close enough to titan status in my book

basically, it's possible to create something that can wipe out an entire population unit of any existing race with relative ease for less than an essence, which is a clear flaw of the system; I expressed this same concern IC during tick 3.

[Stirk]

i mean, all of them are far beyond the abilities of a mortal or even group of mortals to fight, which is close enough to titan status in my book

basically, it's possible to create something that can wipe out an entire population unit of any existing race with relative ease for less than an essence, which is a clear flaw of the system; I expressed this same concern IC during tick 3.

A population unit (1000 people?) could definitely beat one of those titans without getting completely erased.

[Chevaleresse]

not from my perspective, but i suppose this might be due to undefined combat mechanics

using my own titan and race for example, what are they going to do against a giant, near indestructible rock that can reinforce itself with rune magic? The best they could offer is soldiers kitted up in runeforged armor with pickaxes and hope that they don't get crushed too quickly for them to take chunks out of it

[Stirk]

not from my perspective, but i suppose this might be due to undefined combat mechanics

using my own titan and race for example, what are they going to do against a giant, near indestructible rock that can reinforce itself with rune magic? The best they could offer is soldiers kitted up in runeforged armor with pickaxes and hope that they don't get crushed too quickly for them to take chunks out of it

This one?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Strength 4
Agility 1
Endurance 4
Not Alive
Rune Magic
Nonsentient

Its at the "Pretty Tough" level, but not to the point of being immune to conventional weapons. An army of a thousand could take it down without getting completely wiped out.

[Chevaleresse]

That's assuming the entire population is military though, which is just not going to be the case. Even if you've got some sort of Spartan-esque society, you're still going to have people who spend most of their time smithing, farming, tailoring, etc. Imagine something like that wandering into an Iron Age city and going on a rampage; the citizenry isn't going to immediately form up into armored, fully equipped ranks, and assault it in a coordinated fashion.

[Happy Demon]

That's assuming the entire population is military though, which is just not going to be the case. Even if you've got some sort of Spartan-esque society, you're still going to have people who spend most of their time smithing, farming, tailoring, etc. Imagine something like that wandering into an Iron Age city and going on a rampage; the citizenry isn't going to immediately form up into armored, fully equipped ranks, and assault it in a coordinated fashion.

What about the mages?
Couldn't a handful of powerful mages restrain it while the miners destroy it?
Or the mages just destroy it with their magic.

[Chevaleresse]

That's assuming the entire population is military though, which is just not going to be the case. Even if you've got some sort of Spartan-esque society, you're still going to have people who spend most of their time smithing, farming, tailoring, etc. Imagine something like that wandering into an Iron Age city and going on a rampage; the citizenry isn't going to immediately form up into armored, fully equipped ranks, and assault it in a coordinated fashion.

What about the mages?
Couldn't a handful of powerful mages restrain it while the miners destroy it?
Or the mages just destroy it with their magic.

The Keardai can't use magic >.>

and i'm not sure how strong mages of other races would be at this point, tbh. Going by D&D standards (the closest thing I could think of that was applicable), Hold Monster is a fifth level spell, which means there's probably not very many people running around that can toss a strong holding spell like that out on a whim.

[Stirk]

That's assuming the entire population is military though, which is just not going to be the case. Even if you've got some sort of Spartan-esque society, you're still going to have people who spend most of their time smithing, farming, tailoring, etc. Imagine something like that wandering into an Iron Age city and going on a rampage; the citizenry isn't going to immediately form up into armored, fully equipped ranks, and assault it in a coordinated fashion.

Its assuming that once it is established as a threat, the God would start conscripting everyone they can to avoid being genocided. Handing out sticks with pointy bits of iron on the end is all that is *really* needed in something like this, probably with the God themselves providing the tactics and formations. 1000 to 1 odds are pretty bad assuming they are anywhere close to the same ballpark. With your example, the race would be able to produce high-quality weapons with rune magic fairly quickly, especially if they prepared for such an event.

[Happy Demon]

Spoiler: Droplet Stats (click to show/hide)

Original Droplet

Endurance
Specific Strength: Wielded +2
Specific Dexterity: Wielded
Size
Affinity (Fire) Rank 2
Not Alive

0.004*1.5*5.2*1.3*1.5*2.6*5 = 0.790 92 E

Okay, much closer, but I'm lacking some traits. Specifically shape shifter, replication, and proportion-less strength.
There doesn't seem to be any negative traits I can balance it with either. Guess I better put up proposals.

[Stirk]

Spoiler: Droplet Stats (click to show/hide)

Original Droplet

Endurance
Specific Strength: Wielded +2
Specific Dexterity: Wielded
Size
Affinity (Fire) Rank 2
Not Alive

0.004*1.5*5.2*1.3*1.5*2.6*5 = 0.790 92 E

Okay, much closer, but I'm lacking some traits. Specifically shape shifter, replication, and proportion-less strength.
There doesn't seem to be any negative traits I can balance it with either. Guess I better put up proposals.

The innate magic + something or other would probably work well for pretty much all of those.

[Andres]

Malakath has created 830 human souls in Malakathium and notices no significant worship. (Malakath: -3E) Malakath has created another 830 human souls and consumes them, gaining nothing noticeable from it. (Malakath: -3E)

KJP, I should've been able to create 1,000 human souls with 3E. The normal price is 4E for 1,000 human souls but my Souls sphere decreases the price of soul-related things by 25%, meaning it only costs 3E for me to make them.

EDIT: The rule specifically states that it's 10% for using one sphere and 25% for using all of my spheres, with the latter overwriting the former (using the word "unless") if the conditions are met. I am using all of my spheres and so I should get a 25% discount, not a 10% discount.

[Rolepgeek]

i mean, all of them are far beyond the abilities of a mortal or even group of mortals to fight, which is close enough to titan status in my book

basically, it's possible to create something that can wipe out an entire population unit of any existing race with relative ease for less than an essence, which is a clear flaw of the system; I expressed this same concern IC during tick 3.

If the fight's on the titan's terms, sure. I mean, they're for different purposes, first off. A combat-focused titan as compared to worship and civilization-building people are going to have very different effects.

Don't use DnD as an example here. It's just a bad idea . Keep in mind a couple of things. A thousand people could take out that Titan. Yeah, it'd be hard, but it'd be a matter of trapping it. It's strong and fast; it can't fly. It's also not necessarily very smart, and as far as I know, Rune Magic would take a bit of time, can't be applied to creatures, and doesn't make you immune to magic in turn. Magic+prep time means most things can be taken down. Also keep in mind that your stone golem is only about typical size, maybe a bit bigger, or at least it doesn't have a huge advantage from it's size, as it doesn't have the actual Size trait.

Keardai being unable to use magic, without any compensatory skills that would enable them to deal with rampaging beasts, is another matter. Various ways to keep beasties at bay. Or help one's own people escape; hiding is a tactic like any other. Also, your scenario assumes it's not the thousand attacking the one, and therefore they get no preparation and just have to deal with it out of the blue. If I make a purely raider-based species such that 90% of it's members participate in battles, that would rip the other species apart just as easily. Hell, I could just make a non-sapient species, have four times the numbers, and rip them apart.

Andres, the different is so unimportant, that it makes me wonder why you even brought it up. It's 4E to make a race, not to make souls, first off. No council ruling has ever stated that we can make souls outside of a body to contain them in, technically.

But yes, use Innate Magic, Happy Demon! That was the entire point of it, is to make it so you can do stuff like shape shifting and being made of fire and other cool things that are specific enough to be wasteful to make traits for!

Also seriously if you just drop Specific Strength: Wielded+2 to just plain old Specific Strength: Wielded, you oughta be fine. Mostly. You could use Weakness: Cold or something, if you vote for the Weakness [x0.6] trait and get it passed. Hopefully the Resistance [1.5] trait can get through as well. :/ Could also make them bad at talking to people, or somewhat dull (get it! cuz' they're weapons!) with the Trait-1 stuff.

[Chevaleresse]

i'm pretty sure we're not allowing sphere discounts on something as basic as "make mortals," elsewise TBF could overwhelm everyone with a 50% discount on his generic humanoids, i should be getting a discount on Keardai because they're craftsmen (hell, even more, because they tell stories too)

edit: wait why doesn't it have the size trait goddamnit i swear i applied that

[Rolepgeek]

...50%?

What are you talking about? It's 25% at max, total.

I mean, yeah, we get discounts on creatures if they have traits relating to our spheres. It should be traits, not just flavor, simply to keep mechanics in line and all, as it is then applying as a discount on the trait, but still. If you made the Keardai after the addition of the Hybrid Sphere Discount, then you may well be getting a discount, but you might not be noticing it since it's not super expensive yet.

Also, they're literally generic humanoids. That means they're mooks and therefore suck

EDIT: Size didn't exist as a trait when you made it

SECONDEDIT: Also, KJP, I believe you forgot to dock me for Jhaniz's cost. Not that I'm complaining, mind