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[Mephansteras]

The ebb and flow of ideas continues, and yet echos of corruption still linger. You do not feel safe yet, not at all.


Day 5 has started. It will go until ~4pm Pacific Tuesday.

[fillipk]

So before you all lynch me can you wait.  I have a feeling we are being played but don't have time to share this theory in depth till Friday.  After that lynch me all you want.

[TheDarkStar]

Posts edited last night:

All posts quoted in 305 (by me, as I indicated yesterday) - several are on page 3 and page 17. As a side effect, post 305 is white (normal).
Post 180 (from BHK) is light blue (clear).
Post 116 (from DA) has a white glow (purified).
Post 105 (from fillipk) also has a white glow (purified).
Post 77 (from Jack A T) is light blue (clear).
Post 35 (from BHK) is light green (tainted).
Posts 38, 39, and 41 are light blue (clear).

So before you all lynch me can you wait.  I have a feeling we are being played but don't have time to share this theory in depth till Friday. After that lynch me all you want.

We have five people left, so there will be time to see if you're telling the truth when you roleflip. Best case, you're scum and the game ends after today. However, something does indeed seem somewhat off with this game - how would the game be balanced if the scumteam only had 2 people and no effective nightkill? Even counting me, my wincon is further from the scumteam's wincon than the town's.

Could the scum have an extra power (like an arsonist kill)? Could there be another third party?

[BlackHeartKabal]

Gnawer of Roots.

It's an odd role name, decidedly not a town role name.

I'd imagine that a third party wouldn't exactly have a role name and story comparable to ours.

TDS, fillipk is scum, so this game is done. You've never even claimed a role name, or paraphrased your story. No win condition either. I'm curious what you are, and how you even got this far, despite claiming to be a third party so early.

[TheDarkStar]

You've never even claimed a role name, or paraphrased your story. No win condition either. I'm curious what you are, and how you even got this far, despite claiming to be a third party so early.

Yes I did.

Rolename: not listed in PM
Wincon: I win if there are more posts colored my colors than corrupted posts

PPE: Admittedly, I've barely referenced my flavortext this game. Basically, I'm a nebulous being from beyond the mindscape or something like that: my flavortext discusses the flavor (in other words, color) of the mindscape and my purposes are unaligned and unconcerned with the purposes of normal inhabitants of the mindscape. I just want things to taste good (= not be corrupted) in the end or something like that.

PPE #2:And I forgot to vote for fillipk in my last post despite indicating I would.

[Deus Asmoth]

Of note from last night: while I was purifying my post there was a mention of the strange tinge on them and an implication that there would be consequences for interacting with them.

TDS, what benefit is there for us leaving you alive?

[Jack A T]

Of note from last night: while I was purifying my post there was a mention of the strange tinge on them and an implication that there would be consequences for interacting with them.

Got the strange tinge message too.  I think the implication part in mine may be more of a 'hey this is weird third party stuff' message than an implication that it will have consequences.

What we do know now is that we can't pour stuff onto the TDS stuff to get rid of the TDS stuff.  Precision pours of TDS stuff should be able to get rid of it, though.

The actual scum is not corrupting anything now.  fillipk's argument will inevitably include BHK as among the scum: only player in the 'not scum' pile not to have publicly acted at the same time as public scum action.  Rather far-fetched.  fillipk may also throw one of the other not-scums in his scum guess.

We have five people left, so there will be time to see if you're telling the truth when you roleflip. Best case, you're scum and the game ends after today. However, something does indeed seem somewhat off with this game - how would the game be balanced if the scumteam only had 2 people and no effective nightkill? Even counting me, my wincon is further from the scumteam's wincon than the town's.

TDS: It's simple.  One scumteam member has a power to corrupt one post.  The other (flabort) had the power to move many posts one step towards corruption.  That doesn't add up to one kill in one night.  Assuming flabort could push posts down that second step towards corruption (and assuming he could spread across seven posts, as seems to be the standard), though, he alone could have killed two in two nights.  In the long run, the scum had more than one kill per night, and that was at the core of this game's gimmick.
Then flabort died and we saw just what happens when the scumkill is distributed across the members of the scumteam.  The Deus/Flowing Rivers combo, mediocre when uncoordinated, becomes a killproof shield when coordinated against only part of a scumkill.

[BlackHeartKabal]

You've never even claimed a role name, or paraphrased your story. No win condition either. I'm curious what you are, and how you even got this far, despite claiming to be a third party so early.

Yes I did.

Rolename: not listed in PM
Wincon: I win if there are more posts colored my colors than corrupted posts

PPE: Admittedly, I've barely referenced my flavortext this game. Basically, I'm a nebulous being from beyond the mindscape or something like that: my flavortext discusses the flavor (in other words, color) of the mindscape and my purposes are unaligned and unconcerned with the purposes of normal inhabitants of the mindscape. I just want things to taste good (= not be corrupted) in the end or something like that.

PPE #2:And I forgot to vote for fillipk in my last post despite indicating I would.

But it doesn't make sense. What's with the tinge? Why have a third party only able to benefit the town, and be completely townsided? If a third party was meant to be 100% townsided, or at least have overlapping goals, there would be a catch, or you wouldn't be a third altogether.

[TheDarkStar]

The catch is that I can win with either town or scum. As Jack pointed out, though, the scum team was weakened early, so siding with the town makes sense. If I had decided to side with scum, then I'd have claimed to be a Flowing River (which I can imitate perfectly); it might have been a bit more difficult to control the corruption but I could have used it by killing people off and then spreading white or firebrick to the corrupted posts afterwards.

[BlackHeartKabal]

Then flabort died and we saw just what happens when the scumkill is distributed across the members of the scumteam.  The Deus/Flowing Rivers combo, mediocre when uncoordinated, becomes a killproof shield when coordinated against only part of a scumkill.

Why overlook the mafia losing their kill if one dies? The only way mafia could win if one of them died would be if they bluffed their way through the game down to the last three ( But the Flowing Rivers or a River and Wellspring would shut them down ) or through a truce with the third party. Such a massive oversight. Sympathies for fillipk.

[Mephansteras]

The Vote Tally
fillipk: TheDarkStar


Day ends ~4pm Pacific Tuesday

[fillipk]

I think we are being played.  Specifically I think this is occurring.

Then flabort died and we saw just what happens when the scumkill is distributed across the members of the scumteam.  The Deus/Flowing Rivers combo, mediocre when uncoordinated, becomes a killproof shield when coordinated against only part of a scumkill.

Why overlook the mafia losing their kill if one dies? The only way mafia could win if one of them died would be if they bluffed their way through the game down to the last three ( But the Flowing Rivers or a River and Wellspring would shut them down ) or through a truce with the third party. Such a massive oversight. Sympathies for fillipk.

I began to suspect something was up basically 5 minutes before day 4 was over when BHK posted this.

BHK and TDS, why is lynching me the best possible scenario here?

It isn't, but nobody wants to lynch the third party. which is why we're settling for you.

And fillipk isn't an option because?

Why is fillipk more attractive an option than you?

This made me curious since I had specifically listed out the reasons Persus was a more attractive option then me earlier that day however I didn't put together this theory till after the day had ended and Persus was confirmed to be town.

Jack and BHK are the last two members of the scumteam.  Crazy right, except not really.  As people have said the scumteam not having an automatic nightkill is a huge hit, especially with a role like Persus's who can tell who messed with their posts, whatever the heck O. Wilde could do, and two people that can spread the purified post through seven other posts.  If I was the last scum there is no way I could even have a chance to win against a coordinated front, and the game balance would hinge around Flabort not being killed off.  I don't know a lot about game balance but that is one of the first rules of what not to do, and meph has a lot more experience then me.  I believe that for the sake of game balance Meph included a backup way for the scum to win, by using their roles to help the town and convince everyone that they are town so they don't get lynched. 

If you look at the change logs:

N1 Post Changes:
#28-29 by Jack A T are Tainted
#32 by Persus13 is Tainted
#33 by OSG is Tainted
#34 by Jack A T is Tainted
#35 by BhK is Corrupted
#36 by DA is Clear
#38 by flabort is some form of red shading

Of these its interesting to note the tainted posts are consecutive and all affected psots are from the beginning of the game. Does anyone know why post 38 is red?

What's Changed:
#28, 29, 32, 33, 34 no longer Tainted, now Coral-colour (orangeish, almost certainly tied to Firebrick).
#36 no longer Clear, now Coral-colour.
#38 no longer Firebrick-colour, now Normal
#180 (BHK) is now Corrupted

What, of Note, Didn't Change
#35 is still Corrupted
#116 (DA) is still Normal

Posts edited last night:

All posts quoted in 305 (by me, as I indicated yesterday) - several are on page 3 and page 17. As a side effect, post 305 is white (normal).
Post 180 (from BHK) is light blue (clear).
Post 116 (from DA) has a white glow (purified).
Post 105 (from fillipk) also has a white glow (purified).
Post 77 (from Jack A T) is light blue (clear).
Post 35 (from BHK) is light green (tainted).
Posts 38, 39, and 41 are light blue (clear).

As we can see it appears one person is spreading effects through posts, as all these logs point to one person being able to spread effects, I believe this person is Jack, now the question is, how did he let BHK get away with a fakeclaim.  Its because they were working together, BHK can corrupt his own posts and Jack and or Flabort could spread them some how, probably by diffusing the post over all its quotes, aka: a purified post would spread clear, and a corrupted post would spread tainted.
(Another thing of note is that my post is purified but so far only Deus can purify posts and only his own, If I had that power I would have claimed it so thus this confirms what I was saying about my role)

But, you will say, how would it make sense for there to be three mafia and a third party in a 9 player game.  Well first things first it would mean the third party isn't trying to kill us and probably messes with the mafia, like TDS is doing, but there is still the problem that 2 mislynches put the town dangerously close to MLYLO since there is no automatic nightkill.  Well the town had a powerful investigative role in Persus13 and with the amount of corruption that would be spread the mafia would have to have knowledge of his role and avoid him like the plague otherwise he could point us at who the mafia were, like he did with Fabort.  Also if the third party would be counteracting the agent of the mafia nightkill further protecting the town.

There also comes the point where Jack and BHK claimed

BHK: From a town perspective, you would know who can handle some extra corruption/who doesn't top the list of possible scum automatically when past three corrupted posts.  From a scum perspective, you would know who not to corrupt.
Why ask me?

I know the answer, already. Why would I want to know who the Disciple of Iron Will is? In case the Wellspring dies, I can use the Disciple of Iron Will if he concents as a sort of corruption sink.

Information and ideas, they move about so much. But they have to be directed, be controlled, be orderly. I have the power to do that. The control of the flow of ideas is under my portfolio. It is under the portfolio of the Disciple of the Flowing River. I can pour the aspect of a post to up to seven quotes that the post has quoted. It isn't spread very much, but when an idea flows freely, and is reinforced? They grow far greater.

Quick post, still writing reads.

I can confirm that what BHK claimed is exactly what a Disciple of the Flowing River is, complete with the correct number of quotes (to clarify/to back my claim up, it pours specifically to the first seven quotes in the target post).  The summary is even a pretty clear rewording of the flavour.

I'm Flowing River too.  Did nothing N1, poured 116 N2.

BHK: Actions N1 and N2?

I have done nothing productive all game. N1 for obvious reasons, N2 because I didn't want to mess with the Corruption and red, and the Clear post didn't quote anyone. Which is why I'm asking the Wellspring to quote corruption.

Both of them claimed to do nothing on night one yet it appears as though someone poured post #77 night 1, probably Flabort since that is what Persus claimed, yet if Flabort has the same role as Jack and is part of the scum team, I think Jack was lying about being part of the town.  Also there has only been one pour per night but apparently we have two pourers?  Jack A.T. I feel like after Flabort died Jack and BHK coordinated a role claim where Jack would confirm BHK claiming a pro-town role that is the same as Jack, basically by tweaking the role flavor to be more pro town.  However one of them actually has the scum's only post corrupting power and is abusing the fact that persus can only purify one post to hide that fact.

If my theory is true and you lynch me town loses right out, however if I'm wrong and just messing with you the town still has the tools to protect yourself from TDS and me, so please consider it.  It would also explain why Jack and BHK conveniently forgot to pour on night 3 when we needed to confirm people's roles.

[Jack A T]

fillipk: Your case is far-fetched and wrong.
*BHK was signaling elements of his role from the very start of the game, and I was signalling mine from mid-D2.

*We were the third and fourth claims.  A quite risky time to claim, particularly since there was nothing identifiably pour-worthy N2 aside from what I poured.  You're saying we took an action that, if a single Flowing River lived, would have lost us the game immediately at a time when there was no way for us to know no River existed.  (Imagine a guy coming in, looking at us propping each other up with flavour confirmations, and pointing out that that's not the Flowing River flavour).

*You're telling us that BHK's general strategy was to corrupt low- or no-quote posts so flabort and I could pour them to...very little?

*I note with amusement that you voted the more confirmed of your two targets.

Both of them claimed to do nothing on night one yet it appears as though someone poured post #77 night 1

*This is obviously false.  Almost all of the quoted posts in post 77 have never, ever been altered.  There was no pour of post 77.

Also there has only been one pour per night but apparently we have two pourers?

*This is obviously false.  Yesterday, I coordinated pours of 352 and 292.  Both were poured last night.  You make so much of the idea that there's only one pourer, too.

Your case, even where it doesn't depend on errors of fact, depends on BHK playing suboptimally and on the two of us being damn near suicidal.

Meph: Check 352 again.  You put edits on every non-you post it was poured to except the first.  Missed 179.

Anyway, you've had your time, you've made your case, and it wasn't very good.
fillipk.

[Mephansteras]

Meph: Check 352 again.  You put edits on every non-you post it was poured to except the first.  Missed 179.

So I did. Fixed.

[fillipk]

fillipk: Your case is far-fetched and wrong.
*BHK was signaling elements of his role from the very start of the game, and I was signalling mine from mid-D2.

*We were the third and fourth claims.  A quite risky time to claim, particularly since there was nothing identifiably pour-worthy N2 aside from what I poured.  You're saying we took an action that, if a single Flowing River lived, would have lost us the game immediately at a time when there was no way for us to know no River existed.  (Imagine a guy coming in, looking at us propping each other up with flavour confirmations, and pointing out that that's not the Flowing River flavour).

*You're telling us that BHK's general strategy was to corrupt low- or no-quote posts so flabort and I could pour them to...very little?

*I note with amusement that you voted the more confirmed of your two targets.

Both of them claimed to do nothing on night one yet it appears as though someone poured post #77 night 1

*This is obviously false.  Almost all of the quoted posts in post 77 have never, ever been altered.  There was no pour of post 77.

Also there has only been one pour per night but apparently we have two pourers?

*This is obviously false.  Yesterday, I coordinated pours of 352 and 292.  Both were poured last night.  You make so much of the idea that there's only one pourer, too.

Your case, even where it doesn't depend on errors of fact, depends on BHK playing suboptimally and on the two of us being damn near suicidal.

Meph: Check 352 again.  You put edits on every non-you post it was poured to except the first.  Missed 179.

Anyway, you've had your time, you've made your case, and it wasn't very good.
fillipk.

Maybe my case has a lot of wholes in it but I think some of the more daming points stand.
1.what I claimed my role to be was confirmed since nobody except Deus has claimed to be able to purify posts.
2. Persus claimed Flabort corrupted his post, which was one of many you quoted in post #77.  Post #77 was not corrupted and therefore Flabort poured post #77 as pouring a post removes it of its aspect and he was a Gnawer of Roots.
3. Scum don't have an auto night kill and the one night where all scum were alive they didn't drown us in corruption.  Plus the third party is actively counteracting the scum's nightkill.  The odds are that there are more then two scum

Even if there is only one Mafia left it's probably Jack as he let BHK claim his role flavor for him and what his role does, and all he said was that he has the same role.  I agree that Jack has been very beneficial to the town however I think we are being played and if I'm wrong you still have ways to protect yourself but if I'm right and town lynchee me we lose, right away.