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[Saiko Kila]

I looked into raws of all werecreatures of my world, like wererelephants (three of these invaded my fortress so far), or weretortoises, or weredeer, and they all have arms and grasping attacks. They also all have tag [EQUIPS]. Is it at all possible that in current version there are werebeasts which cannot grasp or don't wear armour? Because my world certainly doesn't have such ones. I witnessed some attacks, and they LOVE to wrestle the clothing and attempt to use it as a weapon.

[Niddhoger]

All werecreatures can equip armor, the problem is that they can rarely ever wear equipment of the right size before they transform.  In fortress mode, you also lose all control over a transformed dorf.  So even if you have equipment on hand that will fit the werebeast, they won't bother trying to put it on.  IIRC, there -is- some leeway in armor sizes.  Generally, you can't put on armor much smaller than you, but there is more wiggle room for equipping armor of a larger size.  Someone over on reddit played with the numbers to find the right math, and I think the upper limit may have been 4/3 standard size for that creature.  So if you can find the right sized animalman species, its theroretically possible to fit the dwarf with loose armor that he'll keep (perhaps on the tight side) transformed. This would only work for werebeasts slightly larger than a standard dorf. 

As for wielding weapons, an elephant's trunk has the grasp tag, and I suppose the turtle gets claws, but it surprises me about the deer.  I'm fairly confident that werecreatures don't always gain hands, though, as not all werebeasts can keep their weapons. 

[TheFlame52]

EDIT: I just had a think, werebeasts are size 80000 according to the wiki. If I get a human or even animal man permanent resident, they can make bigger armor for my werebeast squad. Are there any size 80000 animal men?
EDIT2: Yes, of course there are size 80000 animal men, thank you wiki.
EDIT3: No, wait, dwarves can't wear size 80000

Werebeasts vary in size based on type. I'll see if I can find a werelizard to compare sizes.

Also, you don't need a creature to live in your fort for you to make clothes for them. You can make clothes of all sizes already.

EDIT: Werelizards are size 87000.

[Saiko Kila]

I've made a small werebeast experiment, with an save archived from the moment a wereelephant attacked.

5 dwarves were bitten and survived. I isolated them. 4 of these were infected and changed. The one uninfected dwarf was bitten in this way:

Code: [Select]

The wereelephant bites the performer in the left hand and the severed part sails off in an arc! So biting off a limb doesn't guarantee infection it seems (which was unfortunate here, all other had some of their limbs gone... for a month).

The wereelphants dropped their crutches, armour, clothes and weapons+shields  (two had a weapon: one had a crossbow, the other had a battle axe, both had shields, the weapons and shields were the first items  re-equipped later, despite not being at the top/bottom of the heap). The wereelephants had normal arms, hands, legs, feet, tail and trunk. But they did not held their weapons. So having an arm+hand doesn't quarantee keeping weapons. Maybe they were too small?

Sidenote: one of the infected was a mother with baby, which was unharmed in initial attack. I run three tests. In first one, the mother killed the baby after transformation, and then destroyed the door she was locked in (of course she was also walled in, so she couldn't do much more). During second and third test, the baby wasn't attacked at all, and was carried by the wereelephant. The mother destroyed the door, waited for the transformation back, and carried on as normal, with baby untouched. So having a were-mother doesn't guarantee killing a child, which is a nice touch. Or a bug.

I think that were-beast are to be similar to humans, or animal-humans, as the lore goes, so I'd expect them to have normal limbs. After all, they are "twisted into humanoid form".

Additionally I checked with dfhack, and the only body parts the wereelphants had with "grasp" flag were their hands. Apparently they cannot use trunk for this. I also noticed, that wereape, weregila, werecoati, werelizard, wereiguana and werechameleon have "FINGERS" (and toes) in body plan in RAWs. Other werebeasts from my world do not have fingers. Maybe fingers are needed for keeping weapons as werebeasts? Fingers of dwarves do not have "grasp" flag too, but maybe there is code for this. Can a dwarf keep weapon without fingers?

[NW_Kohaku]

Werebeasts vary in size based on type. I'll see if I can find a werelizard to compare sizes.

Also, you don't need a creature to live in your fort for you to make clothes for them. You can make clothes of all sizes already.

EDIT: Werelizards are size 87000.

Can you find any "close enough" to dwarves beside weregophers?

[Bumber]

All werecreatures can equip armor, the problem is that they can rarely ever wear equipment of the right size before they transform.  In fortress mode, you also lose all control over a transformed dorf.  So even if you have equipment on hand that will fit the werebeast, they won't bother trying to put it on.  IIRC, there -is- some leeway in armor sizes.  Generally, you can't put on armor much smaller than you, but there is more wiggle room for equipping armor of a larger size.  Someone over on reddit played with the numbers to find the right math, and I think the upper limit may have been 4/3 standard size for that creature.  So if you can find the right sized animalman species, its theroretically possible to fit the dwarf with loose armor that he'll keep (perhaps on the tight side) transformed. This would only work for werebeasts slightly larger than a standard dorf.

It's just ±1/7th of creature size, as confirmed by Toady.

[NW_Kohaku]

All werecreatures can equip armor, the problem is that they can rarely ever wear equipment of the right size before they transform.  In fortress mode, you also lose all control over a transformed dorf.  So even if you have equipment on hand that will fit the werebeast, they won't bother trying to put it on.  IIRC, there -is- some leeway in armor sizes.  Generally, you can't put on armor much smaller than you, but there is more wiggle room for equipping armor of a larger size.  Someone over on reddit played with the numbers to find the right math, and I think the upper limit may have been 4/3 standard size for that creature.  So if you can find the right sized animalman species, its theroretically possible to fit the dwarf with loose armor that he'll keep (perhaps on the tight side) transformed. This would only work for werebeasts slightly larger than a standard dorf.

It's just ±1/7th of creature size, as confirmed by Toady.

Using that number, hypothetically, one could make armor for a "bridge" species.  For example, if there is a species that is 68,000 size, one could make armor for that, and it would support both dwarves and werecreatures up to size 77,000.