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Author Topic: Any particular build order  (Read 1262 times)

Antmf

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Any particular build order
« on: April 09, 2016, 07:43:45 am »

Aside from gathering plants and felling trees what should I build first? I am sorta confused on what to build and what order to build it in. What workshops and what should I start building right off the bat.  Please let me know.
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Mostali

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2016, 08:32:08 am »

I start off with a Carpenter, Mason, Craftsdwarf, Kitchen and Still.  I build these next to the wagon while my miners start digging.

- You need the carpenter for a training axe and beds, in that order.
- You need the mason for tables and chairs so your record keeper can get an office, and for your dwarves to eat, in that order.
- You need a craftsdwarf to build large pots because you won't likely have enough barrels at start.
- You need a still for drinks, obviously.
- You need a kitchen for food.  Not so obviously, preparing meals will free barrels up.  If you don't need barrels, you don't need the kitchen.  Dwarves are happy to eat donkey intestines raw.

Those should be enough for several months.  Don't forget to build a Trade Depot in month four or five - it might take them a while to get to it.
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Bumber

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2016, 09:18:36 am »

- You need a craftsdwarf to build large pots because you won't likely have enough barrels at start.
You don't really need large pots. Wood is so plentiful now that you actually might want to get rid of it whenever you can, and there's a bug that causes dwarves to get stuck in trees until they die of thirst.
Nevermind, you can make pots out of wood. I'm pretty sure they don't work for certain reactions, though. (Dwarven syrup, lye, milk, building workshops.)

I use my craftsdwarves mainly for training/hunting bolt production, which usually doesn't come until later, although it doesn't hurt to start training some hunters (which can then be made into archers) early.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 09:34:06 am by Bumber »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 10:06:58 am »

Large pots work for all reactions using barrels, while some soap production line workshop (ashery, I think) requires an actual barrel. As far a I know, lye (and probably milk) and a couple of soap production workshops require a bucket, which isn't replaceable with either a barrel, large pot, or jug. Honey requires a jug.

What to build and build order is play style and biome dependent.
I start with the felling of trees and plant gathering, as well as immediate digging of a recessed courtyard and underground facilities (the latter having higher priority). If I have an aquifer, I usually have to place the workshop area above the first rock layer, and then I combine it with an underground farming area two levels below ground, if possible (to avoid trees poking holes in my roof). If I can I place the workshop area in the first rock layer.
The first workshop is the carpentry one, starting with the production of a door (will keep the undead out if the arrive in the first summer), a shield, 2-3 mine carts (for minecart quantum stockpiles), a bucket and a bed. If there's plenty of wood available cage traps and beds are then cranked out en masse.
The second workshop is the mechanic one, for mechanisms use in cage traps, leverls, and drawbridges.
The third and fourth ones are the mason and the craftdwarf ones, where the craftdwarf produces nest boxes, beehives, and a constant production of large pots from wood (if plentiful) or stone.
A drawbridge airlock goes into the entrance tunnel from the courtyard, with cage traps in between.
A serpentine trade depot entrance is dug out from the courtyard and protected with drawbridges (and later cage traps).
The courtyard is completely decked over (by wood, stone, and/or clay). I prefer to do this before autumn, but often won't finish until a fair bit in.
A trade depot niche is dug out from the courtyard and a depot is built, and a farmer's workshop is likewise built into the courtyard side for shearing/spinning, as well as a surface plot seed stockpile.
Still, kitchen, farmer's workshop for threshing, etc. are often built when the first immigrant wave arrives (I don't have dwarfpower to use them before that anyway).
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greycat

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 05:26:11 pm »

Aside from gathering plants and felling trees what should I build first?

Depends on the danger of your embark location.  In many cases the answer is "a wall", or similar defensive structures.  "A farm plot" would also be a valid answer in some cases.

Quote
I am sorta confused on what to build and what order to build it in. What workshops and what should I start building right off the bat.  Please let me know.

My first workshop is almost always a Carpenter's.  I make a couple bucklers, maybe a wooden training axe (which can be used to cut trees), a few buckets, possibly some barrels if my stone industry isn't ready to start large pots yet, wheelbarrows, minecarts and finally beds.  If I'm piercing an aquifer, then I also make the pump components and blocks out of wood, long before stone is available.  Later, crutches and splints in case of medical emergencies.

Soon after that (or as soon as I get through the aquifer and get some stone digging done), I aim to get 1 or 2 Mason's workshops up, and then a Mechanic's and a Craftdwarf's for stone.  These are typically clustered together in a stone layer, each in a 5x5 room, workshop centered, and 5x5 ring of stone stockpile around the workshop, with wheelbarrows assigned, giving to that workshop.  Each Mason's gets a unique type of stone, so I can crank out matching furniture and blocks of whatever desired type easily and efficiently.  The Mechanic's and Craftdwarf's just use generic non-ore, non-economic stone because I don't particularly care what stone my crafts are made of.  Levers, I do care slightly, but the Mechanic usually gives me enough variety that I have whatever material mechanisms I want by the time I'm ready to make levers.

A Still is important, but depends on my getting some plants first, so it can wait a bit.  A Kitchen is much lower priority, as most of my early game food can be eaten raw.

Large pots work for all reactions using barrels

Not true.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 05:34:03 pm by greycat »
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feelotraveller

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2016, 03:41:59 am »

Hmm, it depends on how you play and your embark.

For me it's nearly always a Mason usually in my 3-wide entrance corridor as soon as a stone drops.  (Luxury of non-evil embark, no towers nearby...)  This cranks out a few blocks, for workshops etc., and then gets destroyed and relocated somewhere more sensible.  Second is almost always a Carpenter for some quick barrels out of wood (need a few eventually and wood is much more common than stone for me at this point) and wheelbarrows for stone/wood hauling and a bucket or two.  This is quickly followed by a Still.  I've taken to embarking without booze otherwise this could wait.  The next three, are the relocated Mason, a Mechanic, and a Craftsdwarf, it depends on worker availability and how things are going but they pretty much all happen at once.  Mason makes a table and a throne and then starts on doors/blocks etc.  Mechanic just for a few mechanisms -> bridge then traps.  Craftsdwarf for pots, cups, and nestboxes if I've got birds, and maybe a couple of hives, just because...  :P  Kitchen is probably next for some meal action and then a Farmers workshop to make some rope to tether dogs probably.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 05:04:23 am »

@greycat: Thanks for correcting me.

@feelotraveller: Embarking without booze seems risky, as it seems it relies on you gathering brewable plants, or at least finding potable surface water, as I though thirst would set in before the first underground plants were harvested?
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feelotraveller

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2016, 02:49:46 am »

Well I wouldn't do it in the deserts or mountains.  ;)

Yes it relies on gathering surface plants.  I generally embark in forests or plains both which have lots of plants (and probably too many trees...).  But really any plant supporting biome should provide oodles of brewable plants.  At a rough guess about half of plants are brewable.  You don't need to take a skilled herbalist although I often do.  Cold climates can make things interesting.  Digging for the caverns and gathering from there might be doable but I have never tried.  Now THAT seems risky to me...  Farms will not produce quickly enough.

From memory, generally you have about 3 weeks until the starting seven get thirsty although it varies a bit; vague memory is that at about 18 days the first dwarf will want a drink; although it could even be as early as 14 days, maybe?  I've never really looked for the factors...  Gathering some plants and getting them brewed (including workshop setup and container manufacture) in this time frame is not that hard although you do need to prioritize it.  And when I say 'not that hard' this takes into account doing it underground in a stone layer where I like to set up.
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Sanctume

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2016, 12:10:08 pm »

The logistics is needing 2 food units per dwarf, per season; and 5 unit of drinks per dwarf, per season.

So, let's say 7 dwarf.
Food x 2 = 14 units of food for 1 season.
Drink x 5 = 35 units of booze for 1 season.

Given you start doing plant gathering and felling trees, this gives you wood resource to make barrels (or large pots). 
Water can be drank from nearby water source, even murky pools. 

The most logical answer is Carpenter Workshop will make use of those logs.
I see most video / tutorials make a single Carpenter's workshop which I think is a mistake.
Build 3 or more carpenter's can help lessen the micro managing of wood items from a single Carpenter's workshop. 

Queue:
3 barrels, 3 buckets, 3 wheelbarrows, 1 stepladder
1 table, 1 chair, 1 coffer, 7 beds
4 table, 4 chair, 2 doors

With these, you get initial items to brew, haul stone faster, setup gather tree/fruit zone, manager/bookeeper office, hospital, dorms, and dine hall.

All you have to do is for the miner to dig a temporary room, all those (manager/bookeeper office, hospital, dorms, and dine hall) can fit in an 11x11 dirt room.

Then form there, dig room for stockpiles.  It is tempting to just make one large stockpile room, but I suppose it depends on the play style of wanting a more micro-managed / organize stockpiles. 

The reason for stockpile, is that I want the gathered plants and food be stored sooner because it's position will dictate where I will built the Still, kitchen, and other food industry.  Start small and compact with some plans to expand a little bit unless you already have a plan to build elsewhere like near magma, or above ground projects.

Plant gathering and tree zones are seemingly overpowered, or at least makes farm plots less of importance early in the embark.  Nethertheless, if doing above ground, brewing needs to happen first to get more seeds for farm plots.

With food done, decide on whether to look for metal, or work with stone, in either case, dig.

The wiki quick start guide covers all of these.

greycat

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2016, 02:05:17 pm »

I see most video / tutorials make a single Carpenter's workshop which I think is a mistake.
Build 3 or more carpenter's can help lessen the micro managing of wood items from a single Carpenter's workshop. 

There's no right or wrong way to embark, but I could never see myself taking 3 Carpenter dwarves in my starting 7.

Quote
Queue:
3 barrels, 3 buckets, 3 wheelbarrows, 1 stepladder
1 table, 1 chair, 1 coffer, 7 beds
4 table, 4 chair, 2 doors

If you have 1 Carpenter dwarf and 3 Carpenter's workshops, then that one dwarf has to waste time walking from one workshop to another.  Again, this isn't "wrong", but it's not how I do it.

Also, I never make doors, tables, chairs or coffers out of wood.  Those are always stone, or in rare cases metal (e.g. Noble's throne).  I reserve wood for beds, bucklers/shields, buckets, wheelbarrows, minecarts and ladders.  And maybe some early-game barrels or pots, though I switch almost exclusively to stone pots later.
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mirrizin

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2016, 02:06:14 pm »

I usually start with a fairly large "survival cave" that's big enough to accommodate all of the basic workshops, plus a small dorm and dining area. Often, this will gradually transition into a trade depot room, or a general antechamber.

After that, I usually dig preliminary workspaces, bedrooms, and a dining area.

Occasionally I'll make a wooden door, but that's always an aesthetic choice. Most all of the regular furniture that can be made of stone will be made of stone.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2016, 03:27:30 pm »

A second carpenter shop for barrels is, in my opinion, wasteful. I build a craftdwarf's shop instead to crank out large pots (that may be wood if I'm on an aquifer but have a lot of wood, or stone most of the time). A craftdwarf's shop provides material flexibility as well as the ability to produce a new range of items (like a set of early goblets).

I produce a wooden door as my first item to keep any summer undead out. If I produce an artifact door later on this first door is replaced (enemies won't get that far in at that time, so it's really a matter of allowing dorfs to admire the wonderful door when moving to the trade depot, etc., not a defense exploit). Apart from that I produce wooden doors as building destroyer bait in my cavern airlocks (and these also serve to lock my dorfs in when I close the outer airlock bridge so I don't have to use civilian alerts every time (with the attendant hauling cancellation spam)).
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Sanctume

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 03:51:08 pm »

With how easy to toggle labors in DTherapist and how plentiful logs are with multiple tile trees, 7 dwarfs start with military or forges skills to maximize weapon or armor moods is doable.  3 dabbling carpenters can cranks out those quick items early in the embark just as easily as dabbling wood / stone crafters. 

Masons aren't even necessary when those items can be made from metal or glass.  Millstones / querns may be needed early if making paper sooner than caravans.

As for the "survival cave" that can be done in above ground building around the wagon.  carpenter, mason, mechanic, craft, wood furnace, smelter and forge are 7 shows with the plenty of room for quantum stockpiling and the wagon can eventually be dismantled for another shop like glass maker.  It will all fit in an 11x11 room.

For aquifer breaching, I find novice skills with 3 started having "carpenter, mason, mechanics, miner, and architect" makes things faster when doing a pump stack aquifer breaching.

Goatmaan

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2016, 06:54:06 pm »

I knew about dwarves eating 2 times a season, but forgot ( or never knew) about
them drinking 5 times a season.
Doing the math, Anvillocked needs 4650 drink PER SEASON!!
So that's why my 3 stills can't keep up!!
Time to do some serious supply chain work!!
Another lesson learned. Thanks.

    Goatmaan
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decev

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Re: Any particular build order
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2016, 07:39:32 pm »

I have a completely different datapoint, but I always embark with at least 5 dogs of each gender, and then slaughter the 4 weakest of each gender using dwarf therapist. I do this instead of bringing much meat. So the first two workshops I build are a butcher and tanner workshop  :)
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