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[Fleeting Frames]

Could turn on speaking logging in announcements.txt to see if they talk to each other at all, though this doesn't really matter regarding needs.

@Sanctume: Assumed you were describing a completely sealed room, which would need food and water.

I went in Moonhome for bed, bed, table | chair, statue, food | table, drink, drink piles, if wells are not possible. Would have made more automatic ahead of time if I wasn't half-assing it.

[FantasticDorf]

Better yet i could just filter it into combat reports so it doesn't interrupt the main game. I dont know if [SPEAK:UCR] making it on the fly would work though, since it'd be easier to log

> I can't see any function to enable speak logging initially

Ok found it. [REGULAR_CONVERSATION:A_D]

First few minutes of dialog, with [REGULAR_CONVERSATION:D_D] enabled since UCR doesn't work confirms that the starting 7 aren't denied the ability to talk to each other & make introductions.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

** Starting New Outpost **
Amost Zanorletmos, Miner: Greetings.  My name is Amost Heartcobalt.  It's great to have a friend like you!
Olon Šzumasmel, Miner: Ah, hello.  I'm Olon Hamemerchant.  Praise creation.  It's great to have a friend like you!
Amost Zanorletmos, Miner: I'm doing well.
Fikod Žslerom, Brewer: Greetings.  My name is Fikod Cavepants.
Olon Šzumasmel, Miner: A ferocious unnatural beast has become the bane of our people.  The Sullen Umbra is in The Barb of Winds.  Seek this place if you hunt Careme Crowdedbalance the Rhythm of Dourness the yeti.  This vile fiend has killed seven in his lust for murder!
Amost Zanorletmos, Miner: It is terrifying.
Ushat Rilbetducim, expedition leader: Greetings.  My name is Ushat Marketworks.
Etur Kegetherush, Weaponsmith: Greetings.  My name is Etur Holdhandles.
Tekkud Zescatten, Planter: Greetings.  My name is Tekkud Brandchannels.
Olon Šzumasmel, Miner: I finished up some work.  I am very satisfied.
Amost Zanorletmos, Miner: I finished up some work.  I am very satisfied.
Fikod Žslerom, Brewer: Greetings.  My name is Fikod Cavepants.

They are still talking about beasts etc even during dwarf mode unprompted, no wonder you'd be annoyed.

Wait. i've got it, maybe its this bug? Dwarves dont make introductions but randomly spam messages of troubles, ill wait for more chit chat though.

CONTINUATION EDIT

All the dwarves have descended into gibberish about worldgenerated troubles, bandits & events. Im tempted to set the config for no outside history but fearful they might all start repeating the same events.

Another log

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Etur Kegetherush, Weaponsmith: Hello Lokum.  It's great to have a friend like you!
Lokum Uzolinash, Planter: Hey.  It is good to see you.  It's great to have a friend like you!  Traveling alone in the wilds?!  You know better than that.
Etur Kegetherush, Weaponsmith: A great beast threatens to bring ruin upon our people.  Blossomhawks the Indignation of Dominating is in The Barb of Winds.  Seek this place if you hunt St“rngut Wavequests the Sunny Lions the roc.  This vile fiend has killed six in his lust for murder!
Lokum Uzolinash, Planter: It is terrifying.
Ushat Rilbetducim, expedition leader: Greetings.  My name is Ushat Marketworks.
Tekkud Zescatten, Planter: Greetings.  My name is Tekkud Brandchannels.
Amost Zanorletmos, Miner: Hello Olon.  It's great to have a friend like you!
Olon Šzumasmel, Miner: Hello.  It is good to see you.  This servant of Shosˆl the Bodice of Bearing greets you.  It's great to have a friend like you!  Traveling alone in the wilds?!  You know better than that.
Amost Zanorletmos, Miner: I finished up some work.  I am very satisfied.
Olon Šzumasmel, Miner: A beast from the wilds has been harassing our people.  The Shaft of Flooding is in The Plains of Sand.  Seek this place if you hunt Ozran Fameerased the giant dingo.
Amost Zanorletmos, Miner: It is terrifying.
Fikod Žslerom, Brewer: Greetings.  My name is Fikod Cavepants.
Etur Kegetherush, Weaponsmith: Greetings.  My name is Etur Holdhandles.
Tekkud Zescatten, Planter: Greetings.  My name is Tekkud Brandchannels.
Lokum Uzolinash, Planter: Greetings.  My name is Lokum Oilorgan.
Ushat Rilbetducim, expedition leader: Greetings.  My name is Ushat Marketworks.
Lokum Uzolinash, Planter: Greetings.  My name is Lokum Oilorgan.
Etur Kegetherush, Weaponsmith: Hello Tekkud.  It's great to have a friend like you!
Tekkud Zescatten, Planter: Hey.  It is good to see you.  It's great to have a friend like you!
Fikod Žslerom, Brewer: Greetings.  My name is Fikod Cavepants.
Etur Kegetherush, Weaponsmith: A beast from the wilds has been harassing our people.  Craftscaverns is in The Steppes of Quietness.  Seek this place if you hunt Justicerusts the giant cougar.  This vile fiend murdered Bomrek Bowedcraft!
Ushat Rilbetducim, expedition leader: Greetings.  My name is Ushat Marketworks.
Tekkud Zescatten, Planter: It is terrifying.

Even though they have had plenty of time, they are still introducing each other constantly. Im highlighting the events reports for your courtesy, they are all the same shade of blue in announcements

Not a coincidence that Etur & Olon are the unpopular dwarves who remain long term aquaintences to some and friends to others.
Ok, finally got a conversation that made a thought and seemed logical, beast/trouble enquiries don't seem to count.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Etur Kegetherush, Weaponsmith: Hey Lokum.  It's great to have a friend like you!
Lokum Uzolinash, Planter: Hey.  It is good to see you.  It's great to have a friend like you!  Traveling alone in the wilds?!  You know better than that.
Etur Kegetherush, Weaponsmith: A month ago, Rig•th Sculptedmirror became mayor of The City of Smokes, replacing Dumed Glazerhyming.
Lokum Uzolinash, Planter: It was inevitable.

Two weasel devils are also having a actual conversation about "stuff" rather than happenings somewhere on layer 163 since i can zone in on them.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Weasel Devil: Greetings.  My name is TRANS_NAME].
Weasel Devil: Hello, weasel devil.  I am TRANS_NAME].
Weasel Devil: Greetings.  My name is TRANS_NAME].
Weasel Devil: These people carrying on about romance should be more practical.
Weasel Devil: Hello, weasel devil.  I am TRANS_NAME].
Weasel Devil: Eh?  The things some people think just boggle the mind.
Weasel Devil: It is best not to complicate your life with lies, sure, but the truth also has its problems.
Weasel Devil: Well, there must be something else to discuss.
Weasel Devil: I concur!
Weasel Devil: You shouldn't get too carried away with romance, but it's fine in moderation.
Weasel Devil: That is the stupidest statement I have ever heard.
Weasel Devil: Well, there must be something else to discuss.
Weasel Devil: Personal freedom must be tempered by other considerations.
Weasel Devil: I concur!
Weasel Devil: I got into an argument.  That was not satisfying.
Tekkud Zescatten, Planter: I finished up some work.  I am very satisfied.
It has started raining.
Weasel Devil: Greetings.  My name is TRANS_NAME].
Weasel Devil: Hello, weasel devil.  I am TRANS_NAME].
Weasel Devil: Hard work is bested by luck, connections and wealth every time.
Weasel Devil: Forgive me, but the things some people think just boggle the mind.
Weasel Devil: Fine.  Let's drop the argument.
Weasel Devil: Sometimes the blunt truth just does more damage.  Think about how the situation will unfold before you speak.
Weasel Devil: No doubt.
Weasel Devil: Greetings.  My name is TRANS_NAME].
Weasel Devil: Hello, weasel devil.  I am TRANS_NAME].
Weasel Devil: Be shrewd, but do not lose yourself in guile.
Weasel Devil: I concur!

[Fleeting Frames]

I more meant on the existing experiment, but okay. Didn't know there was a bug report, nj finding that.

And yeah, the demons are so much - well, not smarter, but better at socialization - than dwarves it is sad.

[FantasticDorf]

I more meant on the existing experiment, but okay. Didn't know there was a bug report, nj finding that.

And yeah, the demons are so much - well, not smarter, but better at socialization - than dwarves it is sad.

Well, they can't form new friends & need pre-requirements if they can't talk. I've been sifting through the responses and these 'arguements' dwarves been having in the mind screen are actually failures to talk (EI - there's no recognised content, so dwarves default it to having a arguement)

So the behaviour "works" (if you can pull dwarves away from zones for 1 second, i can confirm they don't talk there since all my announcements zoom in to my idler zone) but the function to speak is also broken simultaneously.

EDIT -

A migrant just talked normally to a stranger.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rakust Gemurnish, Miller: Ah, hello.  I'm Rakust Prestigetraded.  Praise jewels.
Erush Loloradil, outpost liaison: A beast from the wilds has been harassing our people.  The Shaft of Flooding is in The Plains of Sand.  Seek this place if you hunt Ozran Fameerased the giant dingo.
Rakust Gemurnish, Miller: It is terrifying.
Momuz Etascatten, Fish Cleaner: Greetings.  My name is Momuz Joinchannel.  Praise be to The Chartreuse Canyon of Coal.
Lokum Uzolinash, Planter: Ah, hello.  I'm Lokum Oilorgan.
Momuz Etascatten, Fish Cleaner: I can see a place for maintaining decorum, but it's exhausting to live that way.
Lokum Uzolinash, Planter: So true, so true.
Tekkud Zescatten, Planter: Hey Ushat.  It really is a pleasure to speak with you again.

The rest of my dwarves with better social skills can't utter out a single sentence, this dwarf with only meagre skills & conversationalist though seems to be compatible with my other dwarf since they have a similar if not exact kind of value.

[TheFlame52]

After reading this I'm debating going back to 0.40. How am I supposed to run a long term fortress without marriages?

[PatrikLundell]

After reading this I'm debating going back to 0.40. How am I supposed to run a long term fortress without marriages?

Careful selection and pre nuptial suite treatment can get them to marry even in 0.43.05, but it may take quite some time for them to get there. However, so far I've been able to resurrect dead civs fairly regularly (i.e. gotten at least 3 pairs to produce offspring), the exceptions being when I give up immediately and retry because the starting 7 are 6 of one gender and one of the other, and a bunch of them seem unlikely to be willing to marry anyway.
If you're not playing a dead civ migration and (dwarven) visitors who become citizens ought to be able to sustain your fortress with dwarf power indefinitely (but you can still help the socially inept creatures with marriage arrangements).

[Sanctume]

After reading this I'm debating going back to 0.40. How am I supposed to run a long term fortress without marriages?

Careful selection and pre nuptial suite treatment can get them to marry even in 0.43.05, but it may take quite some time for them to get there. However, so far I've been able to resurrect dead civs fairly regularly (i.e. gotten at least 3 pairs to produce offspring), the exceptions being when I give up immediately and retry because the starting 7 are 6 of one gender and one of the other, and a bunch of them seem unlikely to be willing to marry anyway.
If you're not playing a dead civ migration and (dwarven) visitors who become citizens ought to be able to sustain your fortress with dwarf power indefinitely (but you can still help the socially inept creatures with marriage arrangements).

I think for that kind of embark, try using DFTools where you can change the stats, gender, orientation, age, count and even names of the starting dwarfs. 

I was looking at my notes from Silvermoon

And I only posted the summary of the result of the honeymoon suites.

This one is more compact honeymoon suite.


I have a lot more notes.  I started the 7 migrants each with Flatter+1 and Conversationalist+1.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Founders 06

Setho Ringheavy 06 Setho  m80 art (Rings)
Flatterer+1, Conversationalist+1, Engraver+1, Weaponsmith+5, Organizer+1, Cook+1

Ricko Lovedoor 06 Ricko m76 none (Puzzlebox) 
Flatterer+1, Conversationalist+1, Mechanic+1, Miner+5, Mason+2

Joryo Pickupline 06 Joryo  m63 mw (Picks)
Flatterer+1, Conversationalist+1, Mechanic+1, Miner+5, Mason+2

Luci Docblazes 06 Luci  f79 art  (Buckets)
Flatterer+1, Conversationalist+1, Weaponsmith+3, Doctor+5

Toni Spearbridge 06 Toni  f78 fam (Spears)
Flatterer+1, Conversationalist+1, Architect+1, Weaponsmith+5, Metalsmith+1, Metal Craft+1

Soni Armorcoin 06 Soni f74 fam (Coins)
Flatterer+1, Conversationalist+1, Armorsmith+5, Animal Trainer+3

Ari Barrelbow 06 Ari  f62 mw (Barrels)
Flatterer+1, Conversationalist+1, Carpenter+5, Crossbow+3, Brewer+0

[Fleeting Frames]

@TheFlame52: I bred 19 dwarves to mountainhome in Moonhome with 4 pairs and 3x3 coupling rooms. Just have to force them to meet and bunk together for season-two. (Don't half-ass it, it took me longer than it should have because I assumed they would just do it naturally.)

[Dragonborn]

How badly do these various needs problems affect really long forts, like 20+ years?  Dwarves may not tantrum anymore, but they do get distracted.  I see dwarves get distracted if you don't set up a library or temple within 5 years.  I'm beginning to wonder how screwed up things will get when the stress system is finally fixed.  It's going to require a lot of micromanagement to make sure individuals don't snap. 

Having to micromanage some of these needs seems like way to much work...  You could setup every single dwarf to at least have one crafting job of some kind, and create yearly work orders to produce items.  You could make sure they all have hauling turned on so that they claim items to satisfy that particular need.  You could screen each dwarf and assign hunting/herbalism/fishing to dwarves that need to wander.  Just wish there was an easy way to organize and sort through this kind of data.

[Fleeting Frames]

Looking at Moonhome in 39th year....

Hm, seems to be fine. Can only find 1/147 (32yo second-generation) dwarf with downwards yellow arrow, whose needs are mostly yellow or brown - because apparently they keep on doing individual combat drills even on their half of time inactive, at a guess. On the positive side, omni-legendary combat skills and teacher. Mind, that's in a fort with copious amount of inactivity and tavern, temple and library all available in separate zones.

Pets and fbs don't fare so well, being unable to pray and socialize, but interestingly, children are focused and have their needs page missing. That would mean that in certain setups children learn faster and work/fight better than adults.

[PatrikLundell]

Needs is not that much of a problem with somewhat reasonable management. Personally I run my dead civ (i.e. low pop) fortresses on a cycle with two seasons of work (with caravans arriving), followed by one season of winding down (hauling all the stuff that didn't get hauled due to being short of dorf power), and one season of R&R/Procreation Management. One month of military training is thrown into the second half of the year.
Tavern, library, and temple are present for R&R.

As long as you meet a reasonable number of their needs citizens won't get particularly troubled, even if they'll continue to complain about not meeting non existent relatives and friends (and not getting any of the impossible-to-get foods they crave). I doubt DF intends to become a The Sims clone (if my understanding of how that game works is correct), so stress correction should still allow you to keep citizens with normal sensitivity in a reasonable shape with a reasonable effort, but it should be possible for (intentionally?) poorly handled fortresses to get its members to snap, as well as sensitive individual in "normal" fortresses. In addition to that, Starting Scenarios might include adjustments to sensitivity (prisoners in a prison colony should take more abuse before snapping than a bunch of pampered nobles at a luxury resort).

[Dragonborn]

That's good to know.  I'm not looking for 'The Sims' style of needs fulfillment, but maybe some more automation/smarter dwarves to help mitigate some of this.  If a dwarf is sad because of lack of meaningful work, it'd be cool if they could petition the manager and the manager could enable that some labors/assign some work.  Maybe that will be implemented when proper labor guilds are introduced.  Similarly, if a dwarf is sad due to lack of getting new stuff, make them smarter about going to stockpiles to get it themselves, rather than wait for them to haul something they like.  Maybe this problem would be solved when the economy get reintroduced and dwarves can go shopping for stuff they want.

[FantasticDorf]

Important update. It wasn't a official patch note but Toady offhand mentioned that relationships were fixed.

Also I'm noticing relationships are forming again, did change anything about how they form while socializing?

I might have addressed something, though it was a long time ago and I must not have written it down.  I did check the chat function during Socialize, but I don't remember if I found an error.  Hopefully it is working now.

However the game is still riddled with lots of significant bugs Toady is working hard on fixing, so investigate at your own risk until a more stable update is available.

[maanahr]

I didn't see this mentioned in this thread; I just had a dwarf get his "being extravagant" need fulfilled by taking a bath. Well, either that, or by being completely covered in booze.

Never mind, I think I'm misunderstanding how this works.