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Author Topic: Tips for picking an embark site  (Read 1644 times)

ragincajun

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Tips for picking an embark site
« on: April 02, 2016, 07:48:00 am »

So after years of playing this and getting to the point where I "sort of" know what I'm doing I have a question related to embark sites.

After playing many versions and many worlds...and watching tons of let's plays on You Tube, not to mention tutorial videos (Capt Duck etc) I want to see what tips and suggestions there are for finding really epic embark points.  Now I can generate a world and use the search function but what I'm referring to are things like these:
-Waterfalls
-Area with two mountain peaks and a small valley between them

Just really unique geographical structures in a nutshell.  What should I be looking for on the embark map as key points for things like these?
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No, they went to Hel, where they lead a bleak existence in cold and darkness. Valhalla is reserved for valiant warriors.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Tips for picking an embark site
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2016, 09:45:48 am »

vjek's the expert on world gen issues, but I believe waterfalls are often generated at places where streams/rivers/... meet. For the valley case I'd probably try to tab the pre embark screen to the elevation gradient screen (which I use to ensure MY embarks are perfectly flat...). The elevation screen will provide similar info from an absolute point of view.
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ragincajun

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Re: Tips for picking an embark site
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2016, 11:08:49 am »

vjek's the expert on world gen issues, but I believe waterfalls are often generated at places where streams/rivers/... meet. For the valley case I'd probably try to tab the pre embark screen to the elevation gradient screen (which I use to ensure MY embarks are perfectly flat...). The elevation screen will provide similar info from an absolute point of view.
That brings to mind another question in this vein Patrick...does it have to be all 0 level to be "flat"?  I ask because I've had some where they were all "level" but 2 or 3's and I still had a small corner that was hills.
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No, they went to Hel, where they lead a bleak existence in cold and darkness. Valhalla is reserved for valiant warriors.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Tips for picking an embark site
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2016, 11:19:14 am »

As far as I can tell, you might get away with a 1, but usually you get a small elevation change there. All 0 doesn't guarantee perfect flatness either, unless surrounded by 0, as elevation borders aren't straight, so something high or low just outside might poke into your embark.
The exception of course is ocean/lake shores, which have to be 1 on the land tile(s), or else I've always gotten a bit that's higher.
When I'm in doubt, I copy the save, embark without planning, look around, and then discard the save to restore the copy for a proper embark or selection of a new candidate spot.
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schlake

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Re: Tips for picking an embark site
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2016, 11:25:10 am »

I found a volcano sticking out of a glacier, and the entire cone was inside a 1x1 embark, so I embarked there.  Sadly, a giant magma tube doesn't leave much room for dwarves to live in.
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Sanctume

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Re: Tips for picking an embark site
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2016, 04:52:31 pm »

I think glacier embarks are flat mostly. 

Now flat volcanos are nice to have.

mirrizin

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Re: Tips for picking an embark site
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 01:50:37 pm »

I've had some fun making embark sites on those rare spots where "Tall" mountains meet flatland. You get some really dramatic mountaintops and cliffs.

Of course, these can be hard to find.

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gchristopher

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Re: Tips for picking an embark site
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 01:58:21 pm »

If you really want an embark site with more than one or two of those exceptional qualities, even with mastery of world-gen options, you're going to invest a lot of time to have a chance of finding it. I've come to conclude it's rarely worth the time spent searching when you could be playing.

DFHack will let you change most of the embark region details, with varying degrees of difficulty. Elevation is probably the easiest. Position of biomes inside the embark window are also pretty easy. Geology details and large-scale changes (like moving mountains and swamps around the world map along with their animal populations), are harder or more tedious.

Reply if you're interested in details.
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Salmeuk

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Re: Tips for picking an embark site
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2016, 06:35:02 pm »

I saw your question and thought that documenting the embark process might help you understand enough to experiment on your own. As an example embark, I have selected the conflux of two streams. This is a pretty common feature so finding a similar embark shouldn't trouble you.

In my (not particularly unique) opinion, these next three tab screens are the most important for predicting an embark's landscape.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The default tab gives us a few important clues as to the nature of the selected embark, though these are easily discovered by most players at a glance. If you're familiar with the game you can safely skip this paragraph. There is only one biome, a temperate conifer forest, and from the listed traits we're sure to find a lively mix of trees and shrubs. A fairly normal assortment of forest denizens is predicted by the Wilderness savagery level. The temperature is Cold, meaning you will most likely experience an annual freeze anywhere from late summer to early winter (this is not !!SCIENCE!!, just experience talking). "Stream" is important to note if you are interested in using the water's course as a natural moat, since a "Brook" lets creatures walk right over it. Stream also implies a flow of water about three or four tiles thick. Very Deep Soil suggests a few z-layers of surface soil, which could be good or bad depending on your designs. I will assume that you have already encountered aquifers and understand what sorts of foul things they can do to your spectacular designations. The metals are best left for some other post since there is quite a bit of depth to vanilla predicting and most players will just use DFHack Prospect anyways. I'd like to point out that this embark isn't that interesting to me, it was just the first conflux I could find.

The next part is the relative elevation tab. Here, we can get a veeery rough idea of the landscape. I have selected an abnormally large embark, and to give you a good idea of what your typical conflux looks like I have selected a 3x3 teal cliff while leaving one square of 'space' on three sides. This represents the stream of higher elevation merging into the lower stream, which usually results in interesting landscapes and waterfalls.

The final part would be the Cliff Indicator, which provides a more concrete way of scouting for waterfalls. Seeing a double-thick layer of red *'s (very high cliffs) surrounding a trail of blue 0's suggests a stream or river leading to a fairly dramatic waterfall. Personally, I don't like really extreme cliffsides since they betray the underlying procedural generation too much to feel natural (you will see what I mean in a second). High Cliffs or smaller usually leave room for interesting variations in topography.

And now, I've recorded a .gif of the resulting landscape so take a look (I would insert it here, but apparently Imgur translates larger .gifs into .webms now).

http://i.imgur.com/mib5ek3.webm

From that video you can see how the central plateau + waterfall were somewhat reflected in the relative elevation view from earlier, but we didn't know about the southeast - northwest meandering of the canyon stream nor that the northwestern portion of the plateau would have a part that juts out from the cliff (this post would be easier to write if I had payed attention in my geology courses). Overall, the 3x3 teal square was a poor indicator of the smaller details, but the larger formation of plateau - cliff - valley floor was predicted correctly.

In my opinion, this embark is potentially interesting but the squareness of the cliff base as well as the triangular shape of the waterfall's basin throw me off. Plus it's just too large to play at a consistent FPS. I also enjoy when the cliff ends on a larger, sprawling valley floor and this embark feels claustrophobic in that sense. So I've made three more embarks, all nearby this plateau, just to show you how subtle changes in embark choice can change the entire feel of the landscape.

Embark two:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Embark Three:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Embark four

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I might make my own thread to continue posting examples (they are pretty fun to make), but for now I just want to give you the advice that taking the time to find a perfect embark is extremely important to fortress longevity. The character of the surface helps you contextualize all those crazy events, which means you're more likely to keep the fortress going when things slow down. It's more exciting to watch a goblin squad ambush a caravan traveling over a waterfall's ridgeline than it is watching the same ambush happen on a flat plain. Totally my opinion, of course, but my larger point still stands: the more time you spend finding that amazing embark that really inspires your imagination, the more fun you are likely to have.

Don't be afraid to scout by embarking with huge, 8x8 areas selected. Just identify an interesting formation or two, then kill the process (DFHack is useful for this), and embark with a more manageable 3x3 or 4x4. As I've shown, changing your perspective on the landscape can change your entire experience.


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