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Yes. Backstories about our characters, which may answer questions? Seeing the world after the destructive chapters? Yes, please!

2 (40%)

Nah. We should just start Chapter 2/3/5/291, and put background info in the Chapter itself.

0 (0%)

Why ask, Greatness? It's your game, if you want this sort of thing, just do it already.

3 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Voting closed: July 20, 2016, 05:13:00 pm

[Beirus]

I'd argue that we are the raw materials in this situation though. The Operator and the others produced the Wars. We just act as the fuel to keep it going, fuel that would have no effect without something acting on it. Without them, there wouldn't be a Wiki Wars, regardless of whether or not the rest of us existed. We aren't producing the game, our existence is the game. We didnt cause the game, we are the game.

Also, that wasn't what I was arguing before. I was arguing that the higher beings were the root cause of the Wars as a thing in the first place, and anything causatively related would be related to that original cause for it existing because of how the wish was worded. Like in any other sport, producing a single game does not mean that you produced the sport as a thing. You continue its existence, but you did not bring it into existence in the first place.

If that's what you decide though, I'll abide by it and edit my action whenever I wake up. I can just talk to Lucas and Theren while the next round is going on, right?

[Greatness942]

I'd argue that we are the raw materials in this situation though. The Operator and the others produced the Wars. We just act as the fuel to keep it going, fuel that would have no effect without something acting on it. Without them, there wouldn't be a Wiki Wars, regardless of whether or not the rest of us existed. We aren't producing the game, our existence is the game. We didnt cause the game, we are the game.

Also, that wasn't what I was arguing before. I was arguing that the higher beings were the root cause of the Wars as a thing in the first place, and anything causatively related would be related to that original cause for it existing because of how the wish was worded. Like in any other sport, producing a single game does not mean that you produced the sport as a thing. You continue its existence, but you did not bring it into existence in the first place.

If that's what you decide though, I'll abide by it and edit my action whenever I wake up. I can just talk to Lucas and Theren while the next round is going on, right?

You can talk, yeah, though I do have to admit that your argument is sound. Honestly? It's 5:57AM at the time of writing, and I'm nowhere close to considering starting up the inevitable first draft of a turn. In an few hours, I'll either have been up all night, or fast asleep 'til 2:Something PM. I'll read back on all of this and make a decision.

[TheBiggerFish]

Part of the cause of the Wiki-Wars is the availability and usefulness of those raw materials, though.

And being the game is kind of being a cause of the game.  The game can't happen without existing.

[Beirus]

The game can't exist without something causing it to exist in the first place.

But actually, let's look at this game. We can tell from the OP that the outcome has already been decided. The Wars were already caused by the Operator and them, and we as participants do not have the ability to stop that. Which means that everything we do has already been decided upon. We cannot be a cause of the Wars because everything we do was caused by their existence. They existed before us, and causation does not work in reverse.

[Greatness942]

The game can't exist without something causing it to exist in the first place.

But actually, let's look at this game. We can tell from the OP that the outcome has already been decided. The Wars were already caused by the Operator and them, and we as participants do not have the ability to stop that. Which means that everything we do has already been decided upon. We cannot be a cause of the Wars because everything we do was caused by their existence. They existed before us, and causation does not work in reverse.

Well, while I haven't made a decision yet, I can say that perhaps I shouldn't have done the flashforward. I don't want it to seem like the players are fighting a hopeless battle...actually, now that I'm typing this, there's a ton of much better games where the players literally can't win, one example being Call of Cthulhu. I guess what I'm trying to type out is that, yes, the fate of the world has been decided, you can still set the characters back. You can stop it somewhat. Will the bad guys win? Maybe, but that's not hopelessness and failure, that's attrition. If this game feels too much like an unwinnable situation, I might change it. Wanted to re-write the opener anyway, it's too awkward and contradictory, looking back.

Anyway, keep discussing what you're discussing. I'll try to figure everything out later.

EDIT: Actually, lemme reflect, maybe it is good that it's not a "Humans Win" situation. Not because it's depressing, but because that leaves two things: The kind of Call of Cthulhu type gameplay where the more important is the little victories that keep things back. That, and it may leave room for future games in the same continuity.

[Beirus]

Nah, that's the thing though. No matter what happens, no matter how many setbacks, it happens. Whatever we did was how it happened, and doesn't change the outcome. So it doesn't matter what we do or how the game goes, which gives us freedom to do whatever we want without derailing the game.

I probably should have used this example before, but look at any other Wars. Take World War II for example. Germany caused it to happen with the invasion of Poland. Other countries participated on both sides, but they did not cause it because it was already in motion. Pearl Harbor caused the U.S. to enter the war, but they did not cause the war.

[Greatness942]

Nah, that's the thing though. No matter what happens, no matter how many setbacks, it happens. Whatever we did was how it happened, and doesn't change the outcome. So it doesn't matter what we do or how the game goes, which gives us freedom to do whatever we want without derailing the game.

I probably should have used this example before, but look at any other Wars. Take World War II for example. Germany caused it to happen with the invasion of Poland. Other countries participated on both sides, but they did not cause it because it was already in motion. Pearl Harbor caused the U.S. to enter the war, but they did not cause the war.

I actually figured that, which is why I won't change the flashfoward. It's the ultimate freedom.

And you have a great point about WWII in regards to Causation. I may just allow the Alchemhestry to happen. May is the keyword, though all signs point to "well, sure, why not?"

[Greatness942]

Chapter Three: The Test Subjects
Match One: Deathmatch
Round Twenty-Two: Alchemical Antithesis
Remains of Train 45-A's Cars
Evening, Cloudy, 7/20/2016

Standing within an open and destroyed train car in Japan, with Okayama so close to her location, BiggerFish hops down and does her best to survive with a clever plan. She does her best attempt to sneak by hiding in the darkest shadows she can find, which happen to be within the car she's standing in. [7] While she thinks she does well, she would need something to come along and look for her to have it be effective.

?
?

Tapping his fingers against the table, Beirus's voice resonates through the helmet as he says, "Well, I've met Legion. Ran into him in a desert in California. He seemed bored, almost like the apocalypse was just something to do with his time. Seemed like a pretty nice guy, not overly hostile or threatening. Not like that Operator. That guy is a smug jackass. Talking so much shit and acting so high and mighty when he isn't even from this universe. Still, he keeps himself restrained. He seems to show up to gloat, or rub things in people's faces. He has a habit of just body snatching any civilians around, or he did before I wished them somewhere safe. I've only met Jericho in passing, but he seemed like the one that would fly off the handle at the slightest excuse, no matter the consequence it had on this apocalypse they're trying to set up.", before pausing to drink his whiskey. Lucas's face seems impressed slightly as he drinks himself, before saying, "Sounds nice. Shouldn't knock people from other universes too much, but the Operator does sound like a dick.". Beirus nods, before saying, "Speaking of the deathmatch, there should only be one person left other than me. I'll let them live as long as this discussion keeps my interest though, since I have enjoyed my conversation with Theren and I'm sure you have quite a bit to talk about. But they used their wish to give themself a toy. You ever see that show Person of Interest? They got the Machine from that, and I'm sure they'll probably try to use it to track me if they haven't already. But they messed up. You see, they wished for those causatively related to the Wiki Wars to be unable to harm the Machine. I'm a product of the Wars, though, not a cause. Since I would hate for this nice meeting to be interrupted by a hitsquad or something, I'll have to break their toy. It'll just take a moment.". Standing up, he tries to use Alkahestry and Alchemy to track the Machine down. [6] He finds...nothing. Not a thing. Confused, he tries again. And again. "What's going on? Alkahestry uses the Dragon's Pulse! Chi! How-The Machine doesn't have a soul.". Facepalming his helmet, he tries to at least find the Machine Cell that BiggerFish belongs to. [4+2] This one turns up better results, as Alkahestry lets him see some people spread around the world. Grinning, he uses his Aether Manipulation to attack near some of them. [10+2] Using all the life-signatures he can, he tears a random Machine Cell apart [6] in Scotland. Satisfied, he sits down and waves his hands to summon more Ethereal Allies. [8+2] An Aether Rift opens up, it's luscious green bathing the room in a meticulous light, before it suddenly changes. Similar to Hawk's Rift, the green turns to red and it's white to black. Instead of any creatures not made of flesh, instead of an angel, three little creatures emerge from the Rift. They look like Imps, small and red with leathery skin, horns, and small, bat-like wings. Their teeth are sharp and crooked and flame dances between their fingers. Another Dark Rift opens up, and the Imps pass through it.

Morality Based Ability Shift: Aether Manipulation to Nether Manipulation.
BSN: Dun dun duuuun.

Any problems with the turn? Tell me. In the meanwhile, have fun with this little breather.

Spoiler: Beirus (click to show/hide)

Name: Beirus
Voice Color: Lime Green
Gender: Male
Nationality: American

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Tamarack_River: +Water Breathing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Dewgeni%C3%BD_Nabo%C3%BD%C3%A7enko: +2 Soccer, +Soccer Ball
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Korbankolev: +1 Soccer (+3 overall)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Bryce: +1 Bobsledding, +Bobsled, +1 TV Production
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Heart_Cathedral_%28Fairbanks,_Alaska%29: +2 Catholic Practice, +Bishopric Communication
http://fma.wikia.com/wiki/Van_Hohenheim: +Hohenheim's Alchemy, +2 Alchemy
http://rwby.wikia.com/wiki/Cinder%27s_Weapon: +Cinder's Weapon (Dust Blades/Dust Bow 3/3) (18 Arrows of Reserve Ammo + Dust (Arrow Crafting)) (Can morph between the two modes. The weapons are made out of Dust assisted Obsidian)
http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Aether_Embodiment: +2 Aether, +Aether Manipulation, +Ethereal Constructs
http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/M1216: : +M1219

Assets: Soccer Ball, Bobsled, Barrett M223 Devastation (Semi Automatic Sniper Rifle 15/15), Upgraded Alchemic Armor (Healing Nanodroids, Alchemix Forcefield 200/200), Alchemic Re-Breather, Breathing Suit, Cinder's Weapon (RWBY), Modified M1219 (Fully Automatic Shotgun 400/400. 8 Magazines of Reserve Ammo. Long Reload)

Abilities: Water Breathing: Breathe Underwater without Drowning
Bishopric Communication: Can use Prayer to summon a Bishop as a Friendly NPC to assist them.
Hohenheim's Alchemy: Can perform the Alchemy and Alkahestry present in Fullmetal Alchemist, but can not only do it without a transmutation circle, but can also transmute biological mass and he doesn't need to use Equivalent Exchange. Due to how Hohenheim uses his alchemy, it saps a little bit of life force, but resting can assist with this.
Nether Manipulation: Can alter and bend reality to Beirus's liking
Ethereal Constructs: Can produce Ethereal Allies and Weapons, which last the result of the roll -2

Allies: Imps

Spoiler: TheBiggerFish (click to show/hide)

Name: BiggerFish II
Voice Color: Glowing Blue
Gender: Female
Nationality: British
Injuries: Laser Wound (Hole in Stomach: Bandaged)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_S%C3%A1ez: +2 Politics, +2 Modeling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawdog_Studios: +2 Game Development
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_obstacle: +Barbed Wire, +2 Trapping, +Ambush
http://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Adventure_Sphere: +Adventure Core
http://theportalwiki.com/wiki/Still_Alive_(song): +2 Singing, +Still Alive

Assets: Barbed Wire, Bluetooth Earpiece, Claymore and Detonator, Bear Traps x2, Smoke Grenade, Tabun Gas Grenade, Gas Mask (All Used)

Abilities: Ambush: While sneaking, BiggerFish can attack from any angle for a +2 to attack
Still Alive: After dying once, BiggerFish comes back with only one Light/Moderate Bleeding Injury (used)

Allies: Adventure Core, Machine Cell (Abigail, Alexis, Carter)

[Beirus]

((I have a couple of bones to pick. I said to use my Aether Manipulation along with my Alchemy to destroy the Machine, as in together, not separately. That should have taken care of any issues with finding it, soul or not. I also wanted to avoid harming the people, not kill them randomly. Maybe sending them a message that I was aware of them and to stay the hell out of my way, but not killing them. While I think the ability shift was neat, that action wasn't at all what I intended to do, other than sending the allies.))

[Greatness942]

((I have a couple of bones to pick. I said to use my Aether Manipulation along with my Alchemy to destroy the Machine, as in together, not separately. That should have taken care of any issues with finding it, soul or not. I also wanted to avoid harming the people, not kill them randomly. Maybe sending them a message that I was aware of them and to stay the hell out of my way, but not killing them. While I think the ability shift was neat, that action wasn't at all what I intended to do, other than sending the allies.))

Y'Know, while I'm talking on Discord with FMA's Alchemy, I have an answer with each one.

1. How would you have used Alchemy? You're no where near where you need to be to use Alchemy on them. Ranged Alchemy was a by-product of Aether Manipulation, granted, but...

2. Fish explained a little more about The Machine to me on Discord. Namely, you can't find it. How? Well, lemme see. I believe something about being installed on whole power grids, ASI's being smarter then to let themselves die, the fact that Fish's machine cell is using a terminal, and not the full Machine as that's located elsewhere...

3. Also, what would mixing Alchemy with Aether Manipulation have gotten? Hooray, plus 4 to destruction...on a 9.

4. I never said you killed them, did I? No, I don't re-call doing that. I said you tore a random Cell apart. Yes, the wording was off and I'll fix it to what I meant to say (you killed their terminal), so I'll give you this one.

[TheBiggerFish]

Umm...Hm...Options for Beirus removal, anyone?  Anyone at all?

I guess try to sneakily get to his location?

...Anyway, keep hiding, I guess.

[Beirus]

Gimme a link to the Discord.

[Greatness942]

'Kay.

https://discord.gg/7BqGk

[piratejoe]

Also, Fish, I wished everyone on the planet to safety once. The deaths of the ones you brought back that die through collateral are on you.

The deaths of the ones you brought back that die through collateral are on you.

If only that where true...ah the classic "Its out of my control/Its his fault because [insert excuse here]" excuse, something that tends to happen after cognitive dissonance. AKA you did something you find morally wrong. So, in order to not feel guilty by it your brain decided to make up an excuse.

So, don't blame fish for your own actions...though it seems this argument was already had...

[Beirus]

((It is true though. The moral implications and obfuscation do not change the fact that bringing them here brings them into danger that would have been avoided if they stayed.))

Beirus pauses for a moment after the Rift closes. "Nether? Something is wrong. It should have been aether. But what does that mean? Is my soul being altered somehow?" Beirus ponders aloud. "Well, I suppose I should end this sooner rather than later, to keep my soul from becoming any more damaged than necessary. I suppose the good thing is that I can still enjoy my drink while I do so. Did you have any other questions, Lucas?"  Beirus remarks, taking a drink of whiskey.

Guess it's time to end this. Alchemy/Alkahestry+Nether Manipulation, kill Fish. Not with rifts that she can reach me through, I mean like with instant turning her to dust or something. Use that tracker I built into my armor to get her location, or my abilities if I need to.