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Yes. Backstories about our characters, which may answer questions? Seeing the world after the destructive chapters? Yes, please!

2 (40%)

Nah. We should just start Chapter 2/3/5/291, and put background info in the Chapter itself.

0 (0%)

Why ask, Greatness? It's your game, if you want this sort of thing, just do it already.

3 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Voting closed: July 20, 2016, 05:13:00 pm

[Beirus]

((Yeah, but Aether Manipulation says I get to warp reality. Why can't I warp it so that my Alchemy works? Also, my alkahestry tracked across plates back when I tracked that one guy in Round 1 for TCM while I was in Rwanda. And Alkahestry doesn't do tectonics, it does the dragon force thing that flows through the whole planet.

Also, Fish, I wished everyone on the planet to safety once. The deaths of the ones you brought back that die through collateral are on you.))

Edit: ((Also, I'm not causing anything to do with the wars. The cable that an electrical charge passes through or the rails a train runs on are not the cause of the charge or the train. I did not start the Wars and I did not start the rounds. I'm outside of the whole process that continues the Wars, other than as a participant, which makes me more like a cog in a watch, not the spring that wound it.))

[Greatness942]

((Very good points, yes. Cut me some slack, I haven't watched FMA:B in a while. I guess you could warp it across Tectonic Plates, and looking back, I saw no problem with how you used Alkahestry back then. I meant Alchemy does plates. Cut me some slack, I easily forget things.

Also, who died that he, specifically, brought back from the dead? I think I'm missing part of something.))

[Beirus]

((Very good points, yes. Cut me some slack, I haven't watched FMA:B in a while. I guess you could warp it across Tectonic Plates, and looking back, I saw no problem with how you used Alkahestry back then. I meant Alchemy does plates. Cut me some slack, I easily forget things.

Also, who died that he, specifically, brought back from the dead? I think I'm missing part of something.))

((He brought Abigail back after she was presumably in the same safe place everyone else got sent to.))

[Greatness942]

((Very good points, yes. Cut me some slack, I haven't watched FMA:B in a while. I guess you could warp it across Tectonic Plates, and looking back, I saw no problem with how you used Alkahestry back then. I meant Alchemy does plates. Cut me some slack, I easily forget things.

Also, who died that he, specifically, brought back from the dead? I think I'm missing part of something.))

((He brought Abigail back after she was presumably in the same safe place everyone else got sent to.))

Yeah, but she didn't die. He also brought Alexis and Carter to him, as well.

[Beirus]

((Very good points, yes. Cut me some slack, I haven't watched FMA:B in a while. I guess you could warp it across Tectonic Plates, and looking back, I saw no problem with how you used Alkahestry back then. I meant Alchemy does plates. Cut me some slack, I easily forget things.

Also, who died that he, specifically, brought back from the dead? I think I'm missing part of something.))

((He brought Abigail back after she was presumably in the same safe place everyone else got sent to.))

Yeah, but she didn't die. He also brought Alexis and Carter to him, as well.

I see the confusion here. I meant that the deaths due to collateral damage of the people he brought from the safe place are on him. Wouldn't have happened if they stayed there.

[Greatness942]

@Beirus: Ah, okay. That makes some sense. Also, your edit about your causation makes sense. I guess I can allow what you want to do. Let's see if Fish has anything else to say first, okay?

@Fish: Obviously, there will be an objection for something. If you disagree, please tell me why. Making a bad call could hurt the game and the players' feelings, and it's something I don't want to do.

[TheBiggerFish]

The thing is, the people who perpetuate the Wars aren't like cogs in a machine, they're like fuel for an engine.  Take away the fuel, the engine doesn't work.

Literally, as far as the metaplot goes, even.

And if you remove a cog the thing stops working, so even if you are just a cog, you're still part of the process.

Also also, I'm going to go look at the wording of Beirus's wish and see if it has any interaction with this scenario.

...Yeah, hmm.

[Beirus]

((I get a rebuttal, right? Because I've got like two written already that tear that argument apart. Seems like you're confusing enabling something with causing it.))

[TheBiggerFish]

((If you are enabling something, you are part of the reasons it exists.  Ergo, causatively related.  Not a cause per se, but the effects of your actions are to perpetuate it.))

[Beirus]

((But you are not the reason it was started. That is what causatively means. It means acting as a cause of something. Perpetuating something is different from causing something. Let's go back to that fuel example. Fuel by itself in an engine does nothing. It needs something to act on it first. That thing is the cause of the engine starting and running, not the fuel. A cause is what makes something exist in the first place, not what keeps it existing.))

[TheBiggerFish]

((Causatively related to the Wiki-Wars is not quite the same as causing the Wiki-Wars.  If I had said causing, I'd agree.  But the fact that your actions can be linked to the perpetuation of the Wiki-Wars means you are (cause/effect) related to them.))

[Beirus]

((No it doesn't. Causatively related means relating to causing, not effects derived from it. I did not create the Wars, and perpetuation has nothing to do with causation. There would not be perpetuation if something had not already caused it, and the things related to the cause, or bringing into existence, of something are causatively related, not those continuing to keep it existing. The Wars already had a cause by the time the first round started, and that round was an effect of that. I've got the definition of "cause" and "causative" if you'd like me to share it.))

[TheBiggerFish]

((You are still contributing to, ergo causing, the Wiki-Wars we are currently dealing with.  No, you didn't create them, but you have made them different by acting.  Like, to use that engine metaphor, you made the fuel explosive (well, more explosive), which causes the contraption to work differently whrn you start it up.))

[Beirus]

((Spoilered for length. It's 5 AM, and my brain doesn't want to work anymore, so I'm gonna go to sleep.))

Spoiler: Really long because definitions (click to show/hide)

((No, I'm not. Here's some definitions to hopefully make this clearer since you seem fixated on the point that contributing to something that already exists is the same as causing it. Causing something and causing something to continue are different.

Cause (noun):
a person or thing that acts, happens, or exists in such a way that some specific thing happens as a result; the producer of an effect:

The specific thing in this case is the Wars, since that was the thing you specified in your wish. Not the rounds, not the specific nuances that change the rounds, but the Wars as a whole, a single thing. This means that the cause of the Wars is the event or action that brought them into existence, not any event or action that makes them continue to exist. None of my actions caused the Wars to happen. They happened, and everything after is an effect. No matter what I do, no action I take will cause the Wars or be related to causing the Wars because they already started.

Causative (adjective):
acting as a cause; producing

As in, acting as a cause of or producing the Wars as a thing, which I did not do. Not perpetuating the Wars. Causing or producing the Wars.

Causatively (adverb):
See causative

Causatively related literally means related to acting as a cause or producing, not perpetuating something that is already caused. I did not act as a cause of the Wars, nor did I produce them. If you had said causatively related to the Wars and their perpetuation, then yeah, I would count.

And your engine analogy still falls apart. It doesn't matter what I do to the fuel. If nothing causes it to combust, it does nothing. It cannot start the engine by itself.))

[Greatness942]

((Spoilered for length. It's 5 AM, and my brain doesn't want to work anymore, so I'm gonna go to sleep.))

Spoiler: Really long because definitions (click to show/hide)

((No, I'm not. Here's some definitions to hopefully make this clearer since you seem fixated on the point that contributing to something that already exists is the same as causing it. Causing something and causing something to continue are different.

Cause (noun):
a person or thing that acts, happens, or exists in such a way that some specific thing happens as a result; the producer of an effect:

The specific thing in this case is the Wars, since that was the thing you specified in your wish. Not the rounds, not the specific nuances that change the rounds, but the Wars as a whole, a single thing. This means that the cause of the Wars is the event or action that brought them into existence, not any event or action that makes them continue to exist. None of my actions caused the Wars to happen. They happened, and everything after is an effect. No matter what I do, no action I take will cause the Wars or be related to causing the Wars because they already started.

Causative (adjective):
acting as a cause; producing

As in, acting as a cause of or producing the Wars as a thing, which I did not do. Not perpetuating the Wars. Causing or producing the Wars.

Causatively (adverb):
See causative

Causatively related literally means related to acting as a cause or producing, not perpetuating something that is already caused. I did not act as a cause of the Wars, nor did I produce them. If you had said causatively related to the Wars and their perpetuation, then yeah, I would count.

And your engine analogy still falls apart. It doesn't matter what I do to the fuel. If nothing causes it to combust, it does nothing. It cannot start the engine by itself.))

Well, looking at the definitions you gave us...it kinda looks like you shot yourself in the foot.

See, you say you aren't producing the Wiki-Wars, yet you are a competitor. Everyone who plays this game is technically producing a bloodsport, interacting in it. Yes, it's a cosmic bloodsport, but in my opinion, production of a sport would be, well, playing the sport since you're producing a game of winners and losers, or in this case, survivors and fallen heroes.